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"We're talking before about the forces, those deeper forces of life in cranial osteopathy. Sutherland said that the CSF, the cerebral spinal fluid that runs up and down his spinal cord- he said metaphorically, that's the seat of the soul. And I believe that. I work with that fluid every day. He said, Intelligence with a capital I lives in that fluid. So if you can get that moving, it's the driver of growth. And so, a lot of these appliances that we're working with get those growth forces moving. So if you can get the growth force moving and you can get a child breathing better overnight, you actually promote their Intelligence with a capital I". -Cole Clayton
Today on the podcast, Mason is joined by Osteopath and long-time friend Cole Clayton. Cole is a unique and brilliant osteopath with a specialised interest in breathing and paediatric cranio-facial growth. He is also the creator of Baseline Breathing- an education programme for those wanting to journey into understanding the practical application of breathing physiology and breathing techniques.
As someone who grew up suffering from undiagnosed sleep-disordered breathing, Cole is passionate about helping kids with the inextricably linked sleep/breath/behavioural problems realise their innate intelligence through breathing and airway early intervention.
This conversation provides a fascinating insight into child development issues of the face, tongue, and airways that translate into sleep and breathing problems. If you're a mouth breather or want to understand what's at play on a deeper level underneath the inability to breathe through the nose (with ease)- I highly recommend tuning in to this episode.
Cole also shares why he deeply aligns with cranial osteopathy. A philosophy of osteopathy that works with embryological growth forces, and honours the body's inherent wisdom and self-healing capacity.
Scroll down to explore the fascinating topics discussed in this episode, and check out the resources at the bottom of the page for links to Cole's course and all specifics mentioned in this episode.
"What a lot of people don't realise is how much the underdevelopment of the jaw deeply affects psychology. And if you want to go into the deeper levels of this, how does that affect the spiritual journey (for want of a better word) of that kid? That kid's development, their understanding of the world and how they fit into it at that really precious age from zero to 14, that's really formative in terms of how they perceive themselves within a family, within a community, as a boy or a girl, as how they fit into that society. If you're doing that with glasses, with hazy fog over the top, it's so difficult. Academic life is difficult, social life is difficult, family life is difficult. Because essentially, when they go to sleep, they're under-oxygenated all night. So they can't repair, they can't grow".
- Cole Clayton
Cole and Mason discuss:
- Pneumopedics.
- Jaw pain and hearing.
- Cranio-facial osteopathy.
- The blocked nose epidemic.
- Embryology and osteopathy.
- Mitochondrial DNA damage.
- How sleep impacts behaviour.
- How Cole works with the body.
- How our breath affects everything.
- Skull and airway underdevelopment.
- Cole's baseline breathing programme.
- Child development, sleep and breathing.
- Conception, birth and growth development.
- Honouring the body's ability to heal itself.
Who is Cole Clayton?
Cole is a practicing osteopath in Byron Bay with a special interest in breathing, breath work and paediatric cranio-facial growth. He works in both general osteopathy at Bay Osteopathy and Wholistic Health and at Dr Levis in Sydney helping transform kid's lives by combining osteopathy, "face gym” and breathing training with the VIVOS for kid's dental appliances.
He is creator of Baseline Breathing - practitioner education program for those wanting to deep dive into understanding the practical application of breathing physiology and techniques.
Resource guide
Guest:
Mentioned in this episode:
The Uncharted Body- Book by Dr. Daniel Keown
Breathe- The New Science Of a Lost Art (book by James Nestor)
Tonics for Spring:
Relevant Podcasts:
Check Out The Transcript Below:
Mason:
Cole, welcome. Welcome.
Cole:
Thanks Mase, good to be here.
Mason:
Good to-
Cole:
Tour the facility.
Mason:
... Yeah. And tour of the Herb Palace.
Cole:
Yeah, that's it.
Mason:
The Herb Palace has changed. We're just chatting about the last time we did a podcast on the Mason Table Show back then. That was on the floor of the spare room. Super Feast was in the garage.
Cole:
True.
Mason:
And that was just, we just moved up from Sydney. And an angel friend of ours understood cash flow and was like, "You guys don't have enough for your own overhead." So she got a house that had a double garage so that we could land there and get on our feet again.
Cole:
How nice. How nice. I knew you when you had a little tent at the Franches Forest Market.
Mason:
Yeah. They were the days, because I think probably when I knew you then I was still in mum's spare room.
Cole:
True.
Mason:
Yeah.
Cole:
Go from a spare room to spare room. And now look, I'll say I knew you when.
Mason:
Yup. It was, very, very humble. Humble beginnings.
Cole:
But how good is that?
Mason:
Yeah, it's feels nice.
Cole:
I think it's awesome.
Mason:
It feels nice to not have had to have gone and imported a business structure or investment or anything like that. It's just slowly grown in accordance with the way I feel it. The vibe of the herbs and the vibe of Daoism and that flow of nature can still find its way through this business structure. That's the way I'm kind of navigating it.
Cole:
Yeah. Yeah. It's nice, with the right care and attention hey?
Mason:
Yeah, because it takes a lot of attention.
Cole:
How many hours a week do you work?
Mason:
Not a crazy amount. I'm probably at like 45 hours a week.
Cole:
Part time.
Mason:
Yeah, exactly. I'm on a lot though. I'm probably, I still, not that I make a habit of it, but I'll go through periods where I will wake up between 1:00 and 3:00 in that liver time.
Cole:
Hot to go.
Mason:
I know it won't be able to help. I'll just be going through a little process. So there's that enmeshment I have with Super Feast, which I do look forward to my next business not having so much of my soul bought into it.
Cole:
How can you not? Going from that tent, to this. It is your soul. It's your soul journey, isn't it?
Mason:
I mean, it's been my dojo, continues to be.
Cole:
Fully.
Mason:
And your-
Cole:
I'm interviewing you.
Mason:
... You are. I'm enjoying it. I was just thinking about, you're over at Bay Osteo now in a very, very official clinic. And when I used to see you, it was, I guess you've undergone your degree, and so you can manoeuvre in the earthly plane-
Cole:
True.
Mason:
... with a little bit more freedom. But it was, I mean it's always nice. I think we've got half the Super Feast crew coming and seeing you.
Cole:
Yeah, it's nice. I think it was Big Jase, remember you introduced me to Big Jase, RIP. And he was the one really. He said, we're talking about what I wanted to do, which is funnily enough what I'm doing, largely, which is early interception, orthodontic orthopaedic growth with kids. And he said, "What do you really need to do it?" I was like, "Well need a qualification ultimately at the end of the day." And he's like, "How long is that going to take?" I was like, "About five years." And he's like, "Any shortcuts?" I was like, "Nah." "No, just got to do it then." And that was it. Five years of...
Mason:
How hard was that? Because I've quite often had people tell me that I'm going to need, and I decided I'm going to.... Because I remember talking to you about this and it was so foreign to me, that ability to bite the bullet that hard for you to go down that five year path, because I-
Cole:
You break a few teeth. I'll tell you that much.
Mason:
... Right. I conscientiously went, "I'm not going to become a practitioner." And I'm going to become, I want to be represent that bubble of decentralised people, and then talk to people who had gone down that practitioner realm. But you went and did it. I can't believe you did it.
Cole:
Yeah, me neither, hey? But I have no memory really of it. I blanked it.
Mason:
Really?
Cole:
Yeah. Well other than after that conversation with Jace, well then he told me all about God and all that stuff too that he does. But after he left, I just opened the computer and went to the website and just filled out the application.
Mason:
Big Jace had a, for anyone... I actually, Jace if you, we'll put in the link below. Jace was on the Mason Taylor Show.
Cole:
Oh was he?
Mason:
As well when he came out with his book. And I don't think it was Have Your Cake and Eat it Too. It was the one when he was getting into the blue light, and the EMF, and-
Cole:
Oh that one.
Mason:
... the 5G and all that kind of stuff. But I met him through George Kavassilas, everyone. So there's two podcasts I'll put below at George Kavassilas, and you got to be ready for what [inaudible 00:05:27].
Cole:
Be ready for George.
Mason:
Yeah. And Jace kind of buffered a little bit, but when Cole's just saying about the God stuff, just like, yeah, get ready because it's a mindblower. But it's also, it's the root of when you go to the classical lessons of Daoism and the shaman roots and yoga, the real true yoga. I've heard, hearing Atani and George talk and George and Atani's like, "This is not just," but she's like, "This is just yoga." And then I've... Even Mark Brenner and that, I've heard him talking to George at the dinner table, and then they've kind of cut through and just been like, Yeah, this is where all the deity and God stuff's got packed onto an essence. And you go back to the true Daoism of true yoga, and it's like exactly the same universe map that George, and then Jace is putting out there.
Cole:
Right. Yeah. Reframed. Because Jace really talk about the 3D world. I mean, Jace was on it in that space, in terms of business. That was his strength. That's why I always took inspiration from him. But anyway, that's what I did. I signed on, I was 38, and I signed onto a five year degree, because he said there's no way of doing it, other than going through it. So I just thought to myself, it's kind of a pivotal moment. I was like, "Well I'm either going to sit here in five years and go, "Oh I would've finished by now and I could have been..."" You know what I mean? Sitting there, wondering what I could have been. And I just couldn't live with that person. In five years' time I couldn't have faced myself if I didn't do it.
Mason:
Far out. So cool.
Cole:
So I did it.
Mason:
At the end, was it a feeling of just cool, tweet, let's go? Or was it a big relief feeling?
Cole:
Yeah, the former. It was just, because the last year was 2020, so that was like, "Oh you've almost made it through and now here you go, try this on." I was like, "Oh you're kidding me." So it took probably an extra three or four months longer and I was just, I was toast from it. I wanted to be out of there. It wasn't even relief, it was just like, just put that part of my life away now, and just focus on what I actually want to do. So it was like going through five years with one-and-a-half hands tied behind my back. I knew what I wanted to do, I just couldn't do it, because I didn't have those little bits of paper and that little registration number and all that sort of stuff. But you get privileged, one you've gone through it all to get.
Mason:
You can see we've definitely, we've gone, as we've exploded, and civilization's exploded, and industry, and now tech, it's gone so structured and it's almost had to be in order to service everyone and keep everyone alive and create a, I don't know, I maybe think a bit romantically, but create the structures in the Earth so that more purposefulness can come through. And now you can see that ringing of the bell, you can see Daoist magic, shamanic Daoism coming back and filling into the structures of Westernised Chinese medicine and that coming back there. And you, you're able to put the suit on. And there's a similar story, but not many people bite the bullet that, hard and can keep the flame, not have... You've got that there's a magic flame in there what you want to bring to the world, and you're willing to bite the bullet and learn how to put the suit on to manoeuvre through an institution and figure out how to fit the magic, or your...
Cole:
Then that comes from that drive. And you've got it too that I know roughly the story of Super Feast with your mum. That was really, she's like, "Why don't you make this a business?" And I know you're close to her. And how your search for the right things to help her out. And I was similar. Not the same, but similar. And that's what drives me, is that sort of, you might call it the North Star or whatever, however corny New Age thing you want to put on it. But it's like growing up with sleep disordered breathing undiagnosed just kept me, that's what keeps me going. It's like what kept me going through that was like, "Okay, I need to finish this degree because there's like, I don't want more and more kids to have to suffer through what I suffered through." So that's really what kept me going. It wasn't about me. It's about the mission. It sounds a bit cliche but it's actually true.
Mason:
Yeah. Cliche's good.
Cole:
Cliche's good.
Mason:
When sincere. And has substance.
Cole:
I like that. I'll quote you on that.
Mason:
Where's it, where's opening up to, because you're in clinic, but I'm sure you're bubbling away in terms of the vision and the North Star getting clearer.
Cole:
Yeah, well we're just essentially trying to build a world leading model for early intervention for kids in terms of early intervention of what? So there's a lot of issues out there with children with development issues of the face, of the airway, relate to the tongue, and that then translates into sleep breathing issues. The most popular one is mouth breathing, but mouth breathing is just on the surface of what's going on actually on the deeper level underneath. You might even go as far as to say is it like a genetic/epigenetic change that's going on? You could go down that whole jack cruise, what do you call that thing? The mitochondrial DNA damage. I can't think of that word off the top of my head.
Mason:
What kind of damage?
Cole:
The mitochondrial DNA damage that it says... He has a specific technical term for it, but how that's affecting people's energy and the way that children are growing and developing. So there's a big issue with that and what I'm dealing with another team. We're working out of Sydney now and we're developing, what I believe, is going to be a world leading model for early intervention. So taking those five year olds who are headed down a real slippery slope in terms of growth, development, sleep, and how that, so sleep is going to immediately impact behaviour. So it's just like if you're listening or even if you get a crappy night's sleep, let's say you've got an issue, you wake up at 1:00 AM three nights in a row and you're up at the computer or I don't know what you do, you probably get a quill and a ink.
Mason:
Yeah, I get my beeswax candle.
Cole:
And a pirate's paper or something Something you've bashed out earlier.
Mason:
I wish I was that cool.
Cole:
Or a slate stone. I don't know how you Daoists do it? But yeah, if you did that three nights in a row, how are you going to feel at work? So let's say you've done that for three nights, then you come into this beautiful meeting room you've got here and you've got a really important meeting, some sort of pitch or whatever. How are you going to perform on that? You're not going to perform well. Well imagine that happened night, after night, after night, after night. Even though you were asleep, you didn't really realise that when you wake up, but you hadn't slept properly at all.
And now, these poor children, six, seven, eight year or nine, 10 they're supposed to sit in a classroom and take in numbers, and writing, and comprehension, and whatever else they're supposed to do within that left brain concentration focus, and sit still at the same time. I mean it's unnatural at best, but if you're sleep deprived and you don't know it, it's literally impossible. And so then those kids, of course, get their labels, and get their diagnosis, and get their melatonin, and all the rest of that stuff that happens. So yeah, I mean that's what driving me is actually trying to turn that tide. And it's happening.
A lot of people are becoming aware at least of even just mouth breathing. And they go, "That's a problem." And that book Breathe and stuff's coming out. And it's really well written book, a beautifully written book. It's very readable and very engaging. And people are going like, "Oh wow!" They're really getting excited about breathing and breathing dysfunction, which is cool. I've been at that game for about 12 years.
Mason:
I was going to say it's always fun then watching Weston Price and dentists bringing out all the photos of underdeveloped jaws and things. It's starting to catch, isn't it?
Cole:
Yeah, but that's for real. But it's what people don't probably realise is that underdevelopment of jaws and how that affects deeply the psychology. And if you want to go into those deeper levels that we're talking about, how does that affect spiritual journey, for want of a better word, of that kid? That kid's development, that kid's understanding of the world and how they fit into it at that really precious age from zero to 14, that's really formative in terms of how they perceive themselves within a family, within a community, as a boy or a girl, as how they fit into that society and that frame that they're exposed to. If you're doing that with glasses, with hazy fog over the top, it's extraordinary difficult. Academic life is difficult. Social life is difficult. Family life is difficult. Because essentially, try to go to sleep and they're under oxygenated all night. So they can't repair, they can't grow.
The brain just doesn't, executive function doesn't develop properly. That's actually proven. So the executive functions, your ability to understand and realise consequences down the track. So if I do that now in A, and by the time I get to E, this is what's going to happen. But a lot of kids are just going A, A, A. You know what I mean?
Mason:
Yeah.
Cole:
And video games makes that way worse, because video games gives you the instant A, and it just takes you to E, or Z, or wherever. And there's no actual need to go, "Oh hang on, if I do this here, then that's going to end up with this happening down here." And it doesn't happen, the game just feeds you.
Mason:
What's the linchpin for you? Because I've been thinking about how often, and I say it as well, let's go to the source of an issue. But we know that there's a spiralling nature of everything being connected. So in terms of something being the source, it's hard to say that one particular thing is the source, but most likely you can feel where the linchpin is, where there isn't a proper aspect of development or we're causing that and we can focus on. Does that resonate?
Cole:
Collectively you're asking?
Mason:
Well for your work.
Cole:
Oh, for my work?
Mason:
Yeah.
Cole:
What do you mean? For me personally?
Mason:
In intervention, in terms of where do you intervene? Do we intervene-
Cole:
Oh, gotcha.
Mason:
... [inaudible 00:17:48] a sleep process? Are you looking at embryonic development? Are you looking at the emotions? Where do you intervene? Or is it a multifaceted approach?
Cole:
It is multifaceted, but actually the place where we're intervening the most is what's called pneumopedics. That's a good word, hey?
Mason:
That's very [inaudible 00:18:10], tell me more.
Cole:
Might make myself sound smart in a minute. pneumopedics is the growth of the pneumo, the airways, the lungs and the airways. So anatomically, just cliff notes, your airway hangs off certain bones in your skull, right? So by that, I mean a pharyngeal airway, but you've got a nasal airway as well, which is very important too. And there's a epidemic of blocked noses out there. It's just, we deal with snot constantly. It's just, how do you get this nose unblocked? There's a real issue.
Mason:
Just because there's a kink in underdevelopment?
Cole:
Could be a kink, but oftentimes it's more so some sort of exposure I reckon. And I reckon, what I reckon a lot of it is actually plastics in the environment, just airborne. And that's probably it. I don't have a heap of proof standing behind me, but just the offgassing. So what? You get plastic chairs, plastic toys, polyester furniture, polyester carpets, polyester clothes, polyester bedding. I reckon that actually has a lot to do with it. And maybe you could probably comment on how that affects hormonally as well I'd imagine.
Mason:
It's a massive disruptor.
Cole:
Yeah, it's huge. So yeah, back on the pneumopedics, you got to be able to have the nose clear to use it. But as that skull grows and develops, if the pharynx, like your throat airway is hanging off that, then think about it. If the skull's underdeveloped, that airway is not going to develop perfectly. Right? So if you're building something that's narrow and thin and you're trying to build an airway that's wide and patent, it's not going to happen if it's hanging off something that's narrow and thin. Does that make sense?
Mason:
Yeah.
Cole:
So that's really where it's at. So if you can change the airway and you can change the mode of breathing at nighttime and how the body... So we're talking before about the forces, those deeper forces of life in cranial osteopathy. Sutherland said that the CSF, the cerebral spinal fluid that runs up and down his spinal cord, he said sort of metaphorically, that's the seat of the soul.
And I believe that. I work with that fluid every day. And I think if you can get that, there's a linchpin for me. Like he said, intelligence with a capital I lives in that fluid. So if you can get that moving, it's really the driver of growth. And so what a lot of these appliances that we're working with do is they literally just get those growth forces really moving. So if you can get the growth force moving and you can get a child breathing better overnight, you actually promote their intelligence with a capital I. There's a linchpin, we figured we got there.
So that's really my deeper goal is to help kids realise their intelligence with a capital I. And then all that crap that bombards them. Because I mean, when I was a kid we didn't have, I had two TV channels and the Sydney Morning Herald my dad used to buy. And I don't know, I'd just look at the TV programme for those two channels. And that was about the length. We had Pizza Hut ads and all that stuff that came to us,. But totally different now. So if the closer that anyone is to their capital I intelligence, the more they can discern how much of that BS they want to listen to or not. But if they've got their head stuck in Minecraft where everything's dumbed down and turned into little blocks, they're just empty vessels for garbage being dumped, unfortunately.
Mason:
I mean the empty vessels, exactly. There's no self-agency. I mean, I've just been talking about it this morning. There's a book out there by Daniel Keown, The Uncharted Body. And he's just more or less looking at why do we say that the kidney jing regulates all, why do we say that the spinal cord and the brain, the sea of marrow, are governed and emerged from the kidneys. And so he'll go to embryology and show how that unfolds from the kidney, and then how we relate to its jing essence. And it seems like you working on that capital I and associated with the spinal fluid. And from everyone listening, you can understand everything that we've talked about in terms of jing essence not leaking it and having the ability to be yourself and not fall into being possessed by ideologies and/or a character in a game or something like that and take on all of those mannerisms. And that's perhaps there a little connection with that.
Cole:
Well it's the same stuff, isn't it? It's just a different way, it's a different philosophy of looking at it. It's the same, it's very much the same thing.
Mason:
It's very deep. It's now as a linchpin truly.
Cole:
I think we have to do it man. Especially as parents, but also as, I don't know, it's part of leadership, as adult, isn't it? Like we can't just sit there and go, "Oh yeah, well..." School system doesn't really work and kids aren't really going that good and there's a lot of information and anxiety. Five year olds have anxiety.
Mason:
Just cross your fingers. It won't be too bad.
Cole:
She'll be all right. Hey, well just pass me another six pack. We can't really sit back and let that happen, I don't think.
Mason:
No, I mean there's something about also manoeuvring the world in a way that isn't... We're still able to celebrate the world, still able to be in it and of it.
Cole:
100%.
Mason:
It's just something really... And just understanding that connection there about the spot. Those little adjustments can see I'm like, "Oh yeah, that paints it for me about..." You talked about epigenetics, "...the kind of environment I'm trying to create for Aya." And connects me a little bit when she comes and sees you and gets those, gets those little adjustments. And with Leo, watching what happens to those couple of times when he's come and seen you. Just that idea of the linchpin of connected to the big Leo, or his agency, or his ability to, you mentioned spiritually, if you're thinking these kids are going to end up as 80, 90 year olds, hundred year olds and it's either going to be smooth for them becoming their rad older selves, or it's going to be very bumpy in the beginning.
Cole:
Well it's going to be bumpy. It has to be. Otherwise, they couldn't become themselves.
Mason:
Got to take it off road.
Cole:
But how they react to those bumps is what our job is, right?
Mason:
Yeah. Right. Okay.
Cole:
So if they're getting decent sleep because you've taken your little newborn and got their cranial, their birth strains out of their body so they're not twisted, and they don't have a headache, and they don't have reflux, and their diaphragms are working properly-
Mason:
Babies having a head...? So I'm like, of course, [inaudible 00:25:54] possible.
Cole:
Try getting your head crushed for 24 hours or 10 hours or 12 hours and see how you feel. Out of the darkness where everything's catered for and you're completely connected to source into total separation. Yeah, that's tough. That's a tough gig. But I mean, what I was going to comment on before was what you're saying. A paradox I've heard, it's not mine, but I was told it is that, this is deep, but the universe is so vast that it's completely incalculable. So the quantum, the potential that is everywhere is completely incalculable, yet it can all fit into the pupil of a newborn baby's eye.
Mason:
Yeah. As above, so below.
Cole:
Yeah. There's a linch.
Mason:
Well it also makes it accessible, because sometimes the unexplainable and the perceivable infiniteness of the universe, and it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but regardless whether it's Daoism or whether it's you go and listen to George Kavassilas's view on it, we've discussed all those things. It's almost undigestible, but in order to actually gain the lessons of this universe, it has to be digestible. Because otherwise, again, from a Daoist perspective, if you're not digesting your spleen isn't able to digest all your inputs and all the things that are coming in and your spiritual understanding of what exists, then you can't actually function. And that's where...
Cole:
So you reckon the spleen's evolved, because-
Mason:
Energetically.
Cole:
... Well 5,000 years ago in whatever, when that philosophy was developed, the inputs coming in at, we got some pretty severe indigestion these days compared to those guys. Or were they just channelling so much that it makes us look stupid that we think we've got heaps here. Well it could be arrogant, couldn't it, to say that, "Oh we've got so much coming in." They could have had.
Mason:
Well based on their understanding, because they didn't have schooling to the extent they didn't have the internet, they didn't have encyclopaedias. And so looking around at the infinite, because the same amount of complexity was there. So for them trying to understand what's going on with celestial bodies, and what's going on with nature, and inter-tribe relations, it was still overwhelming. But I think the benefit there that even though they weren't efficient in processing information and getting what's scientifically or energetically correct, they still... but they were connected to nature, and so it was a little bit easier. So we've had to sacrifice going away from nature a little bit, which is the blueprint of digestion, digesting that information in order, now we've gone and we've exploded ahead and we've got all these inputs. But coming back to indig wisdom is just always just teaches you just stay within your purview, stay within what you can comprehend.
And that's where we talk about North Star, having a North Star of our own vision of staying in alignment with your own purpose or from a physical sense, having the capacity to stay within what you and your hormones and your kidneys can actually do, and not sacrificing yourself. That forces you to block out all the other infiltrations of ideology and infiltrations of things that aren't yours. Stay within yourself, so that you're digesting an appropriate amount of stuff. That's strong chi, is just about creating a strong force field where only the stuff that you choose to engage with gets in there. And to do that, you need sleep.
Cole:
A hundred percent. What they talk about in flow science is the skills challenge ratio. So essentially they're talking about that digestion, that ability to stay in that place of what you're talking about, to be able to digest. But they suggest giving yourself a 4%, four to 5% challenge that just pushes your skills and abilities 5%. But any more than 5%, you're going to start sucking on that adrenal power.
Mason:
I mean, we're obviously trying to figure it out as we go along. And I also liked what you're talking about 5,000 years ago, are we kind of like, "Oh it was so different." And it was, but at the same time I'm like, "Yeah, I also think it wasn't that."
Cole:
But what I'm saying is if they were that in touch with nature, that might have been way more inputs than what we think we've got now just because we've got an iPhone in our hand. You know what I mean?
Mason:
Yeah, for sure.
Cole:
The actual downloads that could come through could be far more powerful.
Mason:
Well I think that's why there's so many hermits back then.
Cole:
Yeah, true.
Mason:
Because it's all you can do. You can't handle any more input from [inaudible 00:31:07]. This is all I can handle is. And it's nice. It was like it's a phase of humanity exploring itself and nature that was relevant. And now we're in a vastly different time. And I like to think back then there was a certain amount of structure and rigidity emerging and there were always those that then would have the role of coming back in and bringing that harmonisation of bringing the magic and the animism back in, or the connection of everything. So rather than just focusing on the shiny things, the stars, which is what I was thinking about before, when you're like, all right, here's a kid cannot concentrate, his grades are like this, behavioural, drugs, ADHD, so on and so forth. It's all shiny thing, but there's no capacity to look at the space between the stars and see. It's so obvious. And so in the next decade it's going to be, we're going to be so obviously capable things like work that you're doing and people are doing to go, "Okay, behavioural sleep and breath and just-"
Cole:
Hello, you're breathing through a straw, see how you go. Put a tight collar around your neck and breathe through a straw and see how you perform for a day. And if only people could get that, it would be like, "Oh shit!"
Mason:
Well hopefully the harmonizations that are occurring aren't having to be a huge pendulum swing. But then likewise, there's times when we went into full animism and full magical ways of seeing the world that there are those that are like, "Okay, we're going to have to bring..." Probably that romance of bringing when science was emerging through, really properly for the first time, through Europe. And having to bring science to the religious establishment that had just taken on a full spaciousness yin kind of approach to the world that was...
And so there's always a harmonisation occurring one way, or the other. It me, it fills me, because I can't, I'm such an extreme person, I'll find my bearings in opposition to something, especially in the early days. Opposition to the modern way of eating, and then to modern medicine, and then to the wellness industry itself when I realised how full of shit it was. And it's like it's slowly but surely, it's not a nice way to get energy kicking back against something. I imagine that's been an interesting journey for you as you go further into the belly of the beast of the institution and qualifications.
Cole:
Well just navigating that path is interesting because I think I've been right out on that oppositional thing too and it didn't really work for me. But I think being a full-time researcher wouldn't work for me either. And I've looked at that as an option. But yeah, there's a line between what's clinically right, and then what you feel intuitively is right at the time as well.
Mason:
Isn't that always science though? It's an inkling of a theory of what people feel?
Cole:
Supposed to be. Supposed to be. Yeah, now it's just like science, because or something. What? Because science, that's the one. It's like, "Well mate, science is actually, true science is an ever evolving large body of knowledge." So if I have issues wanting to understand something, I might go to a science database, for sure, and see what's actually written about it. Because I don't know every condition that I'm, every single thing that I'm treating or come across. So the point of true evidence based medicine is to go, okay, let's say you've got, I don't know? Hearing loss. So you go, "I wonder why, what causes sudden hearing loss?"
So you go, "Okay, well it could be vascularization of the labyrinth," which is basically the inner workings of the ear. It could be virus in there, it could be vitamin D issues. It could be what and what would cause lack of blood flow to that area? Like around the ear. Is that a jaw problem? And if it's a jaw problem, why is the jaw problem there? Because jaw problems are never actually jaw problems. They always have something else. Once your jaw goes out of whack and starts giving up, then you know the chassis is really in trouble.
Mason:
That's interesting.
Cole:
So you've got to go back and check out the whole system.
Mason:
Giving up in terms of its capacity to [inaudible 00:35:51]?
Cole:
Well just jaw pain let's say.
Mason:
Okay.
Cole:
So where was I? I was talking about the ear. Oh just science, right? So you go back and you look at the knowledge base that's there and you go, wow, even just say in an early intervention orthopaedics, pneumopedics. What is the top research is saying and what's published? And then you clinically look at what happens. And every now and again you'll get one of those outliers where you go, "Why has this kid resolved in two months and this kid here 18 months is still the same?" It's like, "What's the difference there? What happened?" And so you go back and you go, "Well what's published about the most...?" Let's say one of the things we deal with a lot is bedwetting in kids. So what are the different papers saying about what causes this and what are the factors and what are some of this treatments?
And so I come up with a huge list of inputs to bedwetting and then some kids will resolve, I can get them in two months just by isolating those things, getting the appliances in their mouth, and then boom. Oh yeah, dry nights for the first week and then couple of accidents and oh yeah, three months later totally dry. Whereas we've got kids 18 months later, every single night it's still going down. So by taking that one, the two month resolution, the 18 months resolution, then you clinically have a really, that's where science sit, the magic of science is right in that space. What is it that's not working and what is it that worked? And then through that observation, that's where you develop your hypothesis. So I think bedwetting has to do with A, because I've seen this clinically and then you do a trial.
So that might be retrospectively be going through your records and your notes and seeing what these patterns are and doing a case series and publishing that. And then or N of one and then a case series. That's the process of science. But how long does that take? Well that might take me 10 years to get that far just to get a case series even ready for publish, right? So does that mean that knowledge that I'm using in clinic today is irrelevant because I haven't published it? Because it's going to take me 10 years to publish it, but I'm doing it today. So am I evidence based in what I'm doing today, or not? It's like that's actually an ethical question. It's quite interesting.
Mason:
I mean it's always the conclusions, the stagnant conclusions that always get me with science when it is in its own way. If you look it's not, and I talk a lot about modern medicine and then Daoism, because they're my two edges, but there is a space where they, the 201, and it's the exact same thing, of course, even though they've got different names, it's still within the world, it's still of this, of human perception and then the words are of human creation. There's a crossover. We're talking about the same thing and we're healing the same thing and so on, and so forth. But-
Cole:
Well you should do a t-shirt, "Daoism because..."
Mason:
... But the variables, I don't know what variables aren't being communicated or aren't being looked at. And that's the beautiful thing I think in going and interpreting data. And then the feeling is often going, I don't think they've measured this as maybe a key factor or a linchpin.
Cole:
A hundred percent. And that's the other part of science, is the debate. So when you put your work out there for publishing, you're actually putting your work out there for critique. So it's a very ego destroying thing. So if you actually do put something out there, then what you're waiting for is for people to go, "Oh nice. Nah, see you've missed this bit, and your study design wasn't good enough because you didn't do this, this, this and this."
Mason:
So you're saying publishing your own data is better destroying [inaudible 00:39:56] than Buddhism?
Cole:
I don't know, I've never tried.
Mason:
You're saying modern science is modern Buddhism, is it?
Cole:
Well you just said everything's all the same thing, right?
Mason:
Yeah. I mean, you got to be careful in brushing a stroke across everyone and everything and falling into the identity of even not agreeing with scientism. So watching, I've talked to you about this before. There's certain scientists, and I've watched them just light up in that process. They've overcome all their insecurities of getting critiqued and they've started to get excited about and they've gone and dealt with their own shit enough that they can receive that criticism and then keep on riding that wave of co-creation.
Cole:
A hundred percent.
Mason:
So beautiful when you come across that.
Cole:
One of the key people I've learned so much off does that with just the greatest ease and grace. He's incredible, how politely he takes on the feedback earnestly and, "Thank you for that." And, "I respect your work." And quite inspiring in that way.
Mason:
I'm not there. I'm still sensitive to feedback.
Cole:
Well, I was going to say the other point I was going to say is, variables. Here's the thing, talking about intelligence with a capital I. Like that little mushroom on the shelf over there. If I took a tablespoon of that and you took a tablespoon of that, we're going to respond to it so completely differently. So if we take kid A and we put an appliance in their mouth and we give them a cranial treatment, that might be enough. Whereas the other one, it may have zero effect at all. Their system might not even register that.
Mason:
That's the thing I'm really interested and that's why I like that book. I'll give you a look at it, The Uncharted Body, because he's like, "All right, well what's happened chemically when we talk about this? When we talk about jing? What are the actual hormones that go into creating prenatal jing that determine whether you've got a really strong constitution or not?" And he's like, "I believe it's got a lot to do with the function of this hormone at this particular age," so on and so forth. And so it's fun. And as I say constantly when I talk about that splicing of philosophies, modern anatomical reductionist anatomical, Western science and something like Daoism or classical Chinese medicine, they're their own languages and you got to respect their different languages and you're not going to be able to lay them over each other. But at the same time, you can hold the idea of both of them and see where they do dance with each other.
Anyway, what was I going to say? In terms of, let's just say profiling, I use it in my business and a lot we have profiling things of people based on the elements and you can see what percentage of wood they are versus fire. And you can see in their temperament. And it's interesting if you're doing that with children, rather than just the children are just children, as children, children, they're all the same bodies. Maybe it doesn't work in going, "Oh, they're a real earth type with a little bit of metal." But perhaps that earth type based way of approaching does show you that they've got particular type of mitochondrial function versus the kid that's high wood element, or perhaps you can see it the way that the liver functions. Therefore chemically what occurs and rolls out. I'm sure science is already developing that kind of classification and differentiation. But-
Cole:
Wow.
Mason:
... Yeah, I mean but that-
Cole:
Just opened a can of worms there. Thanks for that.
Mason:
... But that's the same. I've been thinking in terms of, I know this is an edgy one, but looking at, well I thought about it a lot, how they're like, everyone take this medicine, this injection for this thing that's out there over the last two years. And some people had really poor reactions, some people had no reactions. And likewise, there's people regardless of whether they had it or not, had really poor, or really good reactions to the virus, so on and so forth. And rather than going and just measure, "Oh let's have a look, let's see where their inflammatory markers are at and see if there's any correlation there to a poor reaction to the virus or a good one or let's..." Whatever it is, have a look at these immune markers. Let's have a look at where their, what natural killer cell count is at.
And maybe that determines. Or I know from Daoism it has a lot to do with the stomach's ability term the augment chi and then the ability of the lung chi and there being strong enough in order to withstand the invasion, so on and so forth. There's that there which they work with. And then driving that down into modern science and being like, yeah, well I mean you're sparking that going, why does that kid, why is this going on for 18 months? Maybe they're behind, maybe they're different to that kid, but maybe that is a particular kind of constitution of kid that is going to have a completely different approach to the way that they heal.
Cole:
Well that's it, isn't it? You can't judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree. And that's another little linchpin within this whole thing. Is things like, what's the word? The testing that they do. Not going to say the name of the test, but taking a whole bunch of kids and testing where they're at, relative to what the average. So it's like some kids are absolutely genius at... I don't know what, sport? I work a bit with the kids up at, it's called LUNASA, Level Up National Action Sports Academy. My son goes there, it's a distance ed programme that's combined with skateboarding and surfing.
Mason:
That's really cool.
Cole:
Yeah, it's really cool. My mate Trav started it up. The old Trav, the guy, he's a machine. And there's a lot of kids there that they just, they're quirky. They're not built to sit in a classroom. I teach them for an hour about breathing, and then they go, yeah that's that. To hold them still for an hour is an effort. But then you go and watch them on a vert ramp and they're four, five foot in the air above a 14 foot coping. It's extraordinary what those kids can do. They're just little kids, or they're teenagers, really nice kids. Or you see them on a surfboard. One kid I'm thinking in particular, really nice kid about 15 and then I just saw him as a really, an interested kid. But then you see him, a picture of him, doing a huge air on a wave, rad surfing, and it's just like, "Wow, that's mind blowing." Take someone who's developing a NAPLAN test and show them that. Do you know what I mean?
Mason:
Yeah.
Cole:
If you've ever stood on a skateboard 14, 20 foot in the air above a wooden ramp that's vertical is frightening. I can't even stand at the top of that thing and look down without my heart rate going up.
Mason:
I mean, I think this is the classic I think, but it's a nice solution based thing of when we go, oh we've got such standardised testing and schooling only has the one outcome that agrees with. And it becomes more and more egregious I think.
Cole:
That's what I was saying about leadership though. I think that's, I'm doing my thing. You're doing your thing as an entrepreneur and a parent. And then Trav, he's doing his thing in that space. He's very entrepreneurial, but he's doing it to create a better system. And ultimately his contribution to a better world. And I think that's what I'm calling, we need more of that stuff where you're just going, we can still play in that. They still have teachers, they still have everyone registered in a distance ed programme. They have really good supervision. The teachers are amazing, but they skate for three hours every day as well.
Mason:
Oh that's so good, isn't it?
Cole:
Yeah.
Mason:
[inaudible 00:48:28] slight more things. And that's the problem. You can get bogged down in being against the modern teachers philosophy or the way that modern teachers are taught and the way that that institution... And unfortunately, if you release or you deal with your own resentment because it's always your own shit.
Cole:
Yeah, that's it.
Mason:
Then... And I've met, it's beautiful. One of the beautiful things at Super Feast is, I get to talk to cops, and teachers, and all these people that are already aware of this push to come maybe a little bit closer towards your destiny, rather than the destiny of an institution that you're involved with. And so their autonomy or their self agency starts to emerge a little bit. And then like you, sometimes it's an eject and other times it's like no, I really feel like I'm within my purview. I'm not taking the weight of the transformation of the whole institution myself, but I'm inspired to stay here and do my thing.
And especially when it comes, I like joking about infiltration, because I think infiltration is a part of nature, but it's not everything. And the holding onto that like, " It's a revolution from the inside out. I'm going to take it down from..." I just don't think it's possible.
Cole:
Good luck.
Mason:
Yeah, good luck. And also tearing something down completely, that doesn't happen unless that's a failed experiment. And things, at this current space we're in, we are seeing the evolution of institutions and some are doubling down in their not wanting to transform. That's okay. Others are starting to blossom. And as you said, the more people who are on and activated within those spaces and doing their own dreaming.
Cole:
And that's why we've got a responsibility to bring these next generations through prepared to do that, so that they can take that stuff over. Super important. And just your choices every day of how, they matter within that, where you spend your money.
Mason:
Before we finish up, just I wanted take it back to your work, because thinking about embryology-
Cole:
[inaudible 00:50:39] too philosophical. Yeah?
Mason:
... I mean it's fun. I do it unapologetically at this point. Everyone's used to it. They're like, "Here they go again."
Cole:
That Mason Taylor.
Mason:
Can't help himself. I think you were the first person who I really got into thinking about the embryo, the embryology. Hearing you talk about it, I guess, maybe in your hobbyist days.
Cole:
Maybe. Yeah.
Mason:
Maybe. And since then, obviously it's caught, it's really mushroomed in it's popularity and Atani's pretty into it as well.
Cole:
It's a complex thing.
Mason:
I mean, infinitely. And too magical to really, and unfortunately, or fortunately to be pegged down and isolated. Everything's too gooey and connected. And I think talking to you in the days of you when you're working with someone, having an understanding of the embryology, I think you were the first person bringing that in and going, "Oh." That for me, as I was explaining to you around the way that we do business and the way that I might start using a traditional business model, but then I always have the fall back on of the proven map of Daoism and I can be like, there's five phases of a meeting. We have four seasons and this is liver wood season. And this is the colour when we're talking about liver. And these are the emotional maps when we talk about liver stuff. And she's like, I get to sit back into something.
And I guess that's what working with the body is. That's the difference between a beginning, someone who's working on the body as a beginner is going, "Cool, I'm going to create new ways to do this and I'm going to be really aspirational." But then coming back to, "No, there's a bedrock of a foundation." And I remember feeling that when you talked about embryology. It's like, you were able to... And then this is years ago, I don't know where your work's at at [inaudible 00:52:35].
Cole:
Yeah. Well I mean, that's cranial osteopathy, which is my deeper osteopathic philosophy. I resonate with that. Whether or not it's got a million published papers or not. That's just where I see it. That's what we use. We use the embryological growth forces. So we believe that they're being expressed constantly. So I'm 46, I'm a 46 year old embryo. Just because I've got born and grown doesn't mean those same forces aren't still shaping me. Of course they are. And one of the simplified key principles I think of embryology, if you look at, I mean there's a guy, Blechschmidt, who was a German embryologist that did amazing work. And there's another guy who I've seen speak, Professor Brian Freeman and he interpreted Blechschmidt's work and translated it and did 40 years of his own. He's just like, yeah, if you ever come across him or any of his work, get it. Because he explains the complexity of it with just the most gentlemanly simplicity. It's just poetry the way, listening to him. Yeah. For me anyway. But-
Mason:
Does that connect to any, do you connect that to a movement practise?
Cole:
... Well you can, I'll get to that. But one of the key components of embryology is compression of cells. That's what actually triggers genetic coding is compression. But when you get compression, you get migration of cells to create compression, then that also creates space. And what happens in this space? You get growth. So that we can take that philosophy through life, I think. So where you get compressed, it's actually giving you... The whole world's gone through a compression in the last few years and that's created a lot of space for people to go, "You know what? I don't have to go from 6:00 AM till 7:00 PM at the office five days a week. I can achieve a fair bit working four or five hours from home without the commute."
So that compression actually created an space for the next thing to develop, which is a flexible working model, let's say. And so those forces are continually shaping us. So from a movement point of view, those forces are now in our bodies right now. I mean, our first breath is influencing how we're breathing right now sitting here and how people listening are breathing right now, based on how your first breath was. That sets up a pressure differential within your lungs that is going to stay with you until someone comes along, like me, and can change that a bit. So, help you to change it. And that's what healing comes from as well.
If you come to me with a stiff neck, a sore neck, I don't heal you. I create the situation for your body to heal itself. That's a real premise of osteopathy. Honouring, well my brand of osteopathy, but I'm honouring the body's ability to heal itself. So you can tap into that from a movement point of view. So just by, one of my own personal ones was I stood on the beach and I just started doing embryological movements, which are flexion extensions, so forward and backward bending with rotation. So you generally that'll rotate say to the left with a forward backwards movement. And then after a while it'll switch and rotate the other way with a forward and backwards movement. So you can do stuff like that and actually tap into that wisdom, that body self-healing capacity. And at that particular time it told me that I don't have a connection with my mother very well, which happened to be just before I was going to visit her because she doesn't live in this country. And I was like, "Yeah, right."
Mason:
In terms of being told by your body, or the-
Cole:
My body. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's where those movements started. So it's like, "Wow." In terms of nature, that's our great mother too. So it's maybe becoming aware of that and helping to heal the relationship with the birth mother helps me to heal the relationship with the nature as well. And then through that you get more and more offerings. So I actually end up treating my mother when I was there and I treated what I felt was the strains in her sacrum of birthing, which is pretty wild.
Mason:
... That is wild.
Cole:
That's the sort of stuff that embryology can offer you, but it's a head fuck too. It's so hard.
Mason:
Yeah, all the good things are to begin with, but like anything at some point, because it's so vast when you think about it and everything's so connected.
Cole:
Figure out what happens in eight weeks from the moment of conception, that first eight weeks. You can't comprehend it. It's mind blowing.
Mason:
Where would people find out about that? Say, if you want to take us through the entire journey?
Cole:
Oh, you just have to find someone that can teach you it really. Like for me anyway, can't got Blechschmidt's book and true confession. I haven't really read it. I just dip into it here and there, trying to find an answer for something. But I resonate with hearing a master speak. So Freeman would be the one, professor Brian Freeman. He's got DVDs and stuff. You kind of have to be a bit of a geek to really want to sit down and get it. But someone who can just explain it. And some of the words, understanding some of the words was a big thing for me. So one of my mentors is Greek, Siprett, so he understands all the Greek. So when you're at uni, they hit you with all these words. This is a syncytiotrophoblast. And you go, "Why? How do you spell that even? How do you even?"
Mason:
Sounds like a transformer.
Cole:
But then he said, George said, "Well yeah, look at this. [foreign language 00:59:27], that's Greek for sink. And tropho means to feed. And blast means a chute. So a syncytiotrophoblast is as little chute feeding at a nutrient sink. And that's what happens when the embryo implants into uterine wall, because it's got to get nutrition. And it gets nutrition from the blood in the uterine wall. And all the cells then migrate to that nutrition, which then creates space to make the gut. Cool shit, hey?
Mason:
Do you have more pregnant people, couples coming into your world at the moment since, because that's, what a linchpin there. You talk about the first breath. I mean that was, it's in my face in terms of... Not that Aya's... The biggest jarring thing about Aya's birthing was her home birth was, she came out, peaceful, just looking at us. And then we had a student midwife that we just hadn't really completely thought about it. She was intervening a little bit more than we'd wanted and just we're like, "Get out of the space." Where the old midwives were just kind of like, "Whatever." They were just drink and teas, leaving us to it.
Cole:
You get a lot of those ones.
Mason:
And no, well bless them. It was nice to be able to teach, have her learn with us. But she came and blew on Aya's face, which I know is common practise. And for some people it's like, of course you want to see that she's crying. But that tells you that it's breathing. I'm like, "Well yeah, there's other ways to tell." That she was breathing. And she'd had a breath and she was there kind of looking at us. But it really jarred us, that it was blow in her face until she cries.
Whereas Leo was, he came out asleep, and people say that that's impossible. And we're like, "Well, sorry, he was. And there was snuffling and Tan sucked out all the beautiful goop that was there. And he eventually, his breath kind of activated in its own accord as it went along. And she was rubbing him and we had our little protocol. But it was just such vastly different beginnings. One was intervened, and the other was only had an appropriate amount of intervention by mum who'd just given birth. That feeling of birth magic being the linchpin that starts you being going and intervening. [inaudible 01:01:43]
Cole:
Could go back and say it's conception magic too. Because that is one of the things that I notice, to be honest, with these kids that resolve quick is the parenting.
Mason:
Can you say more about that? Is that too much of a [inaudible 01:02:01]?
Cole:
No, just the way that these kids are parented versus the ones that get nowhere. So there's definitely an essential difference that I can observe. So then that's really interesting, because growth hormone, it's very well known and published that if a child doesn't feel loved or isn't loved, then they won't have as much growth hormone, you know that?
Mason:
Didn't know about that.
Cole:
They just won't grow. And I've actually seen that when I used to work at a boarding school. This kid, I wont go into the details of it, but she was shoved in boarding school from a very young age. And she just wasn't growing. Just wasn't growing tall. So that's super interesting. So essentially part of the thing we're mucking around with breathing and airway and in growth intervention is hormones. So where the child feels secure, safe and happy, they're going to, whatever factors that is that contribute to that, which is really interesting, but they're going to respond way quicker.
Mason:
That's...
Cole:
That's a nice place to finish, isn't it?
Mason:
Is there, other than going and visiting you at Bay Osteo, any other ways for people to interact with you and follow your journey?
Cole:
Yeah, I don't have social media.
Mason:
That's probably why you're so healthy.
Cole:
So there's a website, my name, coleclayton.com.au. There's a bit of stuff on there. That stuff's to come. I'm going to do a YouTube. I know it's useless to say I'm going to, and it's not there. And people are like, "Well what's the point of telling me that?" But that is coming down the track, which will be more breathing based, because I'm just going to milk the trend.
Mason:
Absolutely.
Cole:
But yeah, there's a couple of things. If there're coaches or practitioners that want to know, I call it baseline breathing. So one of my beefs is just seeing everyone going around doing their Wim Hoffs and teaching the Wim Hoffs, I'm being facetious, but teaching stuff, breath work, or whatever it is without really knowing the physiology. And there's some very interesting physiologic explanations and stories that roll around. And so I've developed that online programme called Baseline Breathing.
Mason:
Cool.
Cole:
It's just really takes a coach or a practitioner through, hey, this is actually just what's going on. So when you hyperventilate, you actually really promote your brain stem's response to slow breathing right down. So one of the reasons, not the only, but one of the reasons if you hyperventilate you can hold your breath for a whole heap of time is because your brain is saying, "Well, slow the hell down. We're breathing way too fast."
So it gives you this a whole nother capacity and vice versa. If you slow your breathing right down, your body wants to speed it up. So it's like, that's how those hacks start to work. And baseline just says, this is a diaphragm, these are the ribs, this is how it works. There's so many weird combinations of breathing patterns and ideas about what a diaphragm breath is. This is just showing you really simply in five, 10 minute videos what that actually means. There's about 40 odd videos in the course.
Mason:
Cool. I mean that's an excessive thing. And it's the same as that's taking a scalpel to more or less something that's complete, which is breath and ancient traditions that has multiple breaths and is used this very specifically, oftentimes it under an apprenticeship where the master knew that's an appropriate amount of time to use that hyperventilating breath in order to explore this edge. And then you don't have to do that every day. You can move on to other things.
Cole:
That's the beauty of it. So I designed that one so that you could take it and then design your own breathing programme based on what you actually wanted to do.
Mason:
Oh, cool.
Cole:
So if you wanted to create high performance in this facility, how would you implement breathing into that? Why? How and why? Because then it's going to become more effective. You actually, your transmission in the teaching of it is going to be way more effective, because you actually have a ownership of why and how you're doing it.
Mason:
Very cool. I think that's that maturation of the breathing scene. It's probably due.
Cole:
Yeah, that was my little contribution to that. So you can get that. And there's going to be more. There's going to be just a Achieve your Baseline. So that's just a short course on actually how to do that for the person that doesn't want to go off and teach breathing, but wants to improve their breathing. And there's a Happy Kids Klinic. Clinic with a K. Starts with a K. And there's a little online breathing programme there for kids.
Mason:
Cool.
Cole:
Just to teach them the basics in kid language. Me being silly and acting like a big kid, which isn't too hard.
Mason:
Beautiful. Now, that's over at the website. [inaudible 01:07:31].
Cole:
Yeah. Happy Kids Clinic or then coleclayton.com.au.
Mason:
Cool.
Thanks heap for coming and sharing your childlike wisdom.
Cole:
Thanks for showing me the facility, man. It's amazing. It's amazing to... I just, when I come in here, I just think of that little tent and I'm just like, "Wow." It's inspirational, man.
Mason:
Yeah. [inaudible 01:07:52] I was thinking knowing you at the beginning of this, to go through five years in order to just have the right to share what was already there. I'm sure you [inaudible 01:08:06].
Cole:
Oh hell yeah, I know. But I'm glad I did it. I certainly wouldn't do it again. I'm not racing to do a PhD, I can tell you that much.
Mason:
Oh, if you're lucky enough to be in the area, get in touch with Cole so he can tell you it'll be months before he can see you. But rightfully so. Thanks heaps for coming, man.
Cole:
Right, bro.
