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Healing Heat: Infrared Saunas with Sebastian Mierau (EP #84)

Mason is joined by his best mate and CEO of Clearlight Sauna's (Australia & Europe) Sebastian Mierau. The gents explore the medicinal wonders of infrared saunas and the many very tangible health outcomes that can be experienced by spending time in them. 



Mason is joined by his best mate, and CEO of Clearlight Saunas International, Sebastian Mierau. The gents explore the medicinal wonders of infrared sauna technology and the many very tangible health outcomes that one can experience by spending time in them. Tune in for a fun and insightful chat between two of our favorite health nerd legends. 


Mason and Sebastian explore:

  • Sebastian's journey with Clearlight Saunas.
  • Infrared saunas and weight loss.
  • Infrared saunas and detoxification; the times and temperatures that work best.
  • The healing power of the infrared vibrational frequencies.
  • The pros of getting full body exposure whilst in the infrared sauna.
  • Sauna technology and EMF exposure.
  • Stress as a foundational component of all illness and dis-ease within the body.
  • The health benefits of extreme temperature exposure.
  • The importance of replenishing the body with hydration and minerals post sauna.
  • The link between heat therapy and longevity.
  • Saunas and skin health.


Who is Sebastian Mierau?

Sebastian is a lifelong wellness enthusiast with a passion for the outdoors, sustainability, and happiness. Sebastian grew up in Germany and started his career as an environmental engineer before starting his company in Australia. Sebastian is the co-founder and CEO of Clearlight Saunas International, specializing in luxurious and state-of-the-art infrared saunas, with huge demand around the world from residential and commercial customers. Clearlight has a focus on bringing wellbeing, health, and happiness to staff, customers, and their families. Some of Clearlight's points of difference are their lifetime guarantee, exceptional customer care, ultra-low EMF and ELF heaters, and full-spectrum infrared technology.



Clearlight Infrared Sauna's Website

The Sauna Show Podcast

Clearlight Life Facebook Page 

Clearlight Life Instagram Page


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Check Out The Transcript Here:


Mason: (00:00)

Hello everybody. Hey Seb.


Sebastian: (00:02)

Hey Mason, nice to be here.


Mason: (00:04)

Yeah. Thanks for coming into the humble little podcast cave at HQ.


Sebastian: (00:10)

Beautiful cave it is. Yeah.


Mason: (00:12)

It's a pretty nice cave.


Mason: (00:13)

Enjoying your water?


Sebastian: (00:14)

Yeah. Delicious water. I believe is spring water.


Mason: (00:16)

It is. It is. In fact, it is. So guys we've got Clearlight infrared sauna, full spectrum here at SuperFeast HQ. So many of you would have seen that on Instagram if you've been following me. I've been doing infrared saunas since I was 16 years old. I'm grateful my mom got onto it early and she had one at her clinic. She had like a beauty clinic in Pyrmont in Sydney and then realised that women didn't want to get really sweaty in the middle of the day.


Mason: (00:48)

Didn't even want to jump in a sauna for some reason, so she just brought it home. And so, I've been doing it since I was a teenager. So you would have heard me or seen me sharing about it on Instagram or any one of my talks. I'm a big advocate for it. And more and more now as the awareness of infrared saunas starts to explode a little bit more. I just wanted to do this podcast because I'm getting asked a lot by people.


Mason: (01:19)

Why infrared saunas, why I picked Clearlight? Why it's a kind of a straight one, like saunas is an interest even in herb's in what I do, people say, "Why are you the best, Mason?" I say, "Well, I'm very good at what I do in particular." And I've chosen a little particular field of herbalism, but I could still recommend other people in the Chinese herbal world and medicinal mushroom world that I'd take and trust as well. I'm not like a standalone.


Mason: (01:44)

But I feel like I don't know where the industry's at now. And I know I might be biassed. I've been a fan of Clearlight for a long time. It's probably like over 10 years now. But it's kind of a little bit of a different story for me. I'm like no budge on its only Clearlight that I'd recommend in the technological kind of sauna place because it's technology development that you guys really you're setting the standard in the market.


Mason: (02:10)

And no one with that kind of like Dr. Raleigh and that behind Clearlight and then you, yourself, you don't really kind of starting to push the envelope there. You're just the market leaders. And so, I just wanted to kind of chat about why that is because, SuperFeasters sauna and the sauna that SuperFeasters sauna in, is Clearlight.


Sebastian: (02:28)

That's good. I love it.


Mason: (02:29)

So yeah. So do you want to just let us know, like when did you jump on with Clearlight and start your business and why did you choose that adventure?


Sebastian: (02:41)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think overall, infrared saunas have come a long way. It has been around since the late 1970s, and even back then, they were actually quite amazing because they were developed by people in Japan that were looking at what's the vibration of the body, what's the vibration of water? And if we can mimic this somehow with warmth, there's the health benefits that come out of it, that succeed by far what a hot rocks sauna can do.


Sebastian: (03:16)

And having been in the health industry for so long, I came across Clearlight saunas at one stage when I traveled to the US and realised that would be really a great product to promote in countries where it wasn't available. And at that stage, there was nothing like that in Australia, in New Zealand, in the UK, in Europe, and quite a few other countries.


Sebastian: (03:38)

But I picked those four for certain reasons. Had a business partner and still have a business partner who was in Europe and so on. And so we did that because otherwise, people had to, convert us using the US 120 volt sauna and bring them all over. It was really expensive. Yeah, so there was sort of one motivation. It was just an all rounder, it relaxes you, it detoxes you, it helps you to recover.


Sebastian: (04:05)

You lose weight in it, you look younger, it does a lot to your skin as well. So it was just one of those products that just felt like, wow, this is amazing.


Mason: (04:13)

Well, let's jump into the weight loss thing because obviously weight loss is a great benefit. But you can put like a chemist weight loss shake and a sauna. If you're just going to use weight loss as the claim, then you put them in the same category. But saunas, they've got a very deep effect on the body and a very kind of like within the natural harmonics of the body and the weight loss system and bringing regulation back to the body and the endocrine system. It's a very multifaceted weight loss tool.


Sebastian: (04:48)

It is.


Mason: (04:48)

... loss tools. So let's just jump into what you mean by weight loss in a sauna.


Sebastian: (04:52)

Yeah. Right. So, we always knew that it had an effect on your weight, but we wanted to figure out what it actually exactly does. And so, we partnered up with the US University in Bennington and what-


Mason: (05:05)



Sebastian: (05:05)



Mason: (05:06)

Always struggled to pronounce it.


Sebastian: (05:08)

Bennington. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll look it up for you in a moment. And the study is public, of course, but they used our saunas. And what we found is because we have the frequency right, it really, really tackled certain things in the body. And what an infrared sauna does that a traditional doesn't do is, it actually widens your blood vessels. So that's called vasodilation.


Sebastian: (05:29)

Now, what that has to do with weight loss is that your heart actually needs to work a little bit harder. So that alone drives calorie burning through your heart, which is odd.


Mason: (05:39)

In an infrared sauna.


Sebastian: (05:41)

In an infrared sauna.


Mason: (05:42)

So it's kind of like a [crosstalk 00:05:43].


Sebastian: (05:44)

It's called a passive cardio. And that's really easy to do. So you don't have to force yourself to exercise. You actually sit in it and you burn about 600 calories in an hour. That's quite a bit, you have to walk quite a bit to get the same effect from it. So we found that people who used it, so it was, we had different test groups. And so one test group would use it. The other one would not use it basically would have similar diets in all the markers that we would know what affect the weight.


Sebastian: (06:14)

And what we found is that people who used the infrared sauna just had that effect on it. And I think they lost within a couple of weeks quite a few percentage of their weight. And we also found that when they do it at night, it worked better, which had something to do with sort of way hormonally at that point of the day had. So there are certain things that have made a difference as well.


Mason: (06:38)

That's a huge, just getting into rhythm when you were here, like doing Daoist herbs, the whole point is to get into rhythm with the sun and the earth, the heaven and the earth, and the seasons. And so, if you can get your body and your hormones into that circadian 24 hour rhythm. I like them in the morning, because otherwise, I kind of run a little bit hot. But it's like, I, sometimes like with ashwagandha.


Mason: (07:08)

A lot of times, people like taking a sedative like that at night to really taken to sleep. But those things can steady me kind of first thing in the morning. And I really find that with saunas. So I'll just throw that in because it's definitely not a rule. And I also just do it when I can, I can't do it at night because I don't have one at home at the moment.


Sebastian: (07:26)

It has to work for you. Yeah. And I'm sure we will talk about duration and temperature in a moment. But the other reason why we see a weight loss we believe is, so when you use infrared sauna correctly, you can detox really well with it. There's a certain temperature range that is better than others, which is normally between 45 and 55 degrees in our sauna.


Sebastian: (07:45)

So what that means is that when you sweat at that point, you get like an oil sweat on, and that's something that you might find when you go out in muggy weather and hot weather, you have this sweat, but it's sticky. That's the type of sweat you get more in a lower temperature than a higher temperature. Our sauna's go up to 70 degrees, that's celsius. And so, this oil is normally the place where the body deposits toxins. So it wants to hold onto the toxins.


Mason: (08:13)

So this is the ideal length and temperature being 45 to 55 degrees celsius for what's the duration?


Sebastian: (08:22)

Well, we say normally 30 to 45 minutes depending on your body. Yeah.


Mason: (08:26)

Okay. And so, at that temperature, you're fine. You're able to get down to these oil stores with like fatty oil stores.


Sebastian: (08:37)

That's it.


Mason: (08:38)

Okay. Is that right? The oil.


Sebastian: (08:40)

That's right. Yeah. So, you excrete not only water. The body doesn't feel that it's heating up too much. So it doesn't need to switch to a water sweat, which pulls more temperature out of your body, regulates your temperature way more. So on the 70 degree or higher, if you go into a normal steam sauna, the temperature is way higher. So the body is just like, "I need to cool down. There's no detox time right now. This is just about surviving."


Mason: (09:06)

That's an interesting distinction because from like a classical Chinese theory, they wouldn't want you to be sweating too much water in like a conventional sauna because they would see that then to lead to a Yang deficiency. And so, that's where sometimes it is seen as not ideal to be having really hot and really sweaty saunas if you're feeling a little bit Jing deficient and exhaustive to begin with.


Mason: (09:34)

But does explain why an infrared sauna it's going to be a little bit more lax on that front. You're actually going to be able to like regenerate and use it in your therapeutic rebuilding of your Jing.


Sebastian: (09:49)

Yeah. 100%. And we have some people that have just really high toxicity. I always bring up the painters example, painters that would have used lead pain. They don't want to detox too quickly. Because there's so much that would come out that it would actually because a problem for their health. So we have a certain protocol for them that we say, "Look actually leaves the door open, leave it almost on room temperature."


Sebastian: (10:13)

It will be still really beneficial for you because there's not only the sweat anywhere that an infrared sauna effects. So there are two other pathways. One is the breath and the other one is the faeces. So your digestion system. And so, what we find is that some people go into a cooler sauna, but still detox. And we find some people just don't sweat straightaway. It takes up to 20 sessions for people to get a good sweat on. I'm sure you' ve-


Mason: (10:41)

My mum was like that. I remember it took her a few months having saunas and she probably made it a bit too hot and uncomfortable, but then at some point, it broke. And she was able to sweat and it was no longer uncomfortable for her.


Sebastian: (10:55)

Got you. Yeah. But even if you wouldn't sweat, there are still two other pathways. And the infrared technology, the therapy does work differently because it gives off a certain frequency and we believe in a bell curve. So it's not just one 9.4 micron, which is the frequency of water and 9.8 or what have you. But we do try to mimic what the body gives off anyway. So if you hug someone, that's actually an infrared exchange as well. And the frequency is a certain one.


Sebastian: (11:26)

And so we try to target that one in particular, because we know that when you meet with a frequency, something that has the same frequency, it starts to vibrate, meaning water. So we mimic the water frequency. That's why many people suggest that Clearlight is definitely the market leader, because we're really aware of this benefit for detox, that you really want to meet these particular frequencies because they shake up the cells and the cells exchange more liquid through the membrane because it's the same frequency. And they actually create a vibration.


Mason: (12:00)

I guess that's somewhat ... A real like visceral example would be like the breaking of surface tension on water. If you leave water sitting in a cup for 24 hours, it's going to start going stale and it's going to lose its electric edge. And it will have a strong surface tension. Whereas if you then pour that back and forth and kind of mimic a waterfall, you're going to increase some of that charge. You're going to break the surface tension through the sliding.


Sebastian: (12:30)



Mason: (12:31)

Yeah. It's basically an energising without getting too blasé with the languaging. I definitely don't have a desire to go into deep scientific discussion in the way that I relate to water myself. Anyway, it's not the way I relate to it. The way I relate to what is it brings more life and charge and involvement. And so, I guess that's where I can really relate to what you're saying. Is it breaking that surface tension, bringing life to the water internally.


Sebastian: (13:03)

Without drawing on it too much. But if you think about a glass, if you know what the frequency of a glass in your hand is, you can actually with the right frequency, burst it and it breaks. It starts first to swing, which is ... If you have a glass in your hand, and then you're a singer that has just an amazing pitch and really high pitch, the glass actually would start to vibrate, which means you're fairly close to its ideal frequency that the glass holds that are just frequent.


Sebastian: (13:30)

And at one point, you will just meet it exactly where it belongs with the right strength and it will shatter. And so, that's a fact, that's just physics. And you can see that, you can actually do that. You just have to have the right stereo or some amazing singer coming to you and they can do it, a party trick. So same thing is true for the water. There's just a different frequency.


Sebastian: (13:50)

And so, as that happens, you have this water really doing certain things. Now, tying that back to the sweat thing. So this, what I just explained happens regardless whether you sweat or not, it happens in your body, infrared, fine infrared, which is one spectrum of the whole, travels about five centimeters, roughly like between three and five centimeters, depending on your body type, into your body.


Sebastian: (14:14)

And it meets water and as it meets this water and cells, this water will vibrate. And then will come out and come into your fluids. And then because the other thing that infrared sauna does, it widens your blood vessels through vasodilation. So it really gives it a good flush and brings nutrients at the same time to these cells. That has nothing to do with sweat yet. It's just happening anyway.


Sebastian: (14:41)

So that's what I'm saying, look the temperature all very well, but at the end of the day, as long as you in front of these heaters, with that frequencies, you will see some benefit because it happens no matter whether you sweat or not. The additional benefit is definitely if you sweat, it probably happens faster because it doesn't have to travel through the lungs with the fluids all through your digestion system. But it certainly happens regardless of whether you sweat or not.


Mason: (15:08)

All right. So, a few points there. So, in the way that it works similar to like, okay, let's have a look. Is there any relation to the infrared and sunlight as well as when you're in the sauna just the distinction of whether we want to be getting as much skin exposed as possible, like getting your shirt off if that's what's necessary.


Sebastian: (15:31)

Yeah. Yeah. So there's a spectrum. So the funny thing is infrared, often people think they can see it and that comes from the '80s really when the near infrared was really, really popular, which were the red lamps and they were great and still are great, that people put in front of their face when they have problems, when they have cold or when they have a congestion or something like that.


Sebastian: (15:57)

But that's only part of infrared. There some non-visible spectrum as well. So from the sun, when you look into the sun, that's a full spectrum of all sorts of things. That's a really hot object up there and it gives you the whole range of all different bandwidth. But the one that we filter out of that is far mid in the infrared. And there's also red light that comes a little bit below that.


Sebastian: (16:23)

So some are visible, some are not. In our saunas, we have some that are not visible, which is the fine infrared, and the mid and near come from sources that you can actually see glowing. Yeah. So it is like the sun, it's just doesn't have the full spectrum. So you don't have the spectrum that gives you, I don't know, that people want to be aware of that people use sunscreen for and so on. It's not that. So that was your first question, right?


Mason: (16:50)

Well, because it's like reminisce of a good sunbathing session at times when I'm in the sauna. And that's actually what I just did today. Like just before you got here, I got here, I think like just in time. And I went and laid in the sun down at Bruns for 45 minutes. And it's a different experience to a sauna, but it is reminiscent of like just how my nervous system can't help, but get into a deeply relaxed state.


Mason: (17:21)

I can't help my mind shut off when I'm doing that. And that's similar to what it's like in a sauna. That's kind of what I was just wanting to draw that comparison there, let's get that.


Sebastian: (17:35)

I see. Right.


Mason: (17:36)

But the other piece that I mentioned, the getting the shirt off, getting skin exposed into the panels, whether that's necessary or not.


Sebastian: (17:45)

100%. So yeah, that is because it is a frequency that travels through the room. So even though the infrared saunas have the word sauna in it, and it benefits that it's a hot room, but it's not what it is about. And so, you need to let the frequency somehow come to you, the infrared therapy needs to somehow come actually to your body. And it doesn't travel well through fabric and depending on how much you wear.


Sebastian: (18:10)

So we always say as little as possible and none is fantastic. And that's something people really have to look out for when they shop for infrared saunas. It's like they want to be exposed 360 degrees all around it, because otherwise, it doesn't make any sense. If you have infrared just on your back, the front will not gain a lot of benefit from it. Yes, stuff happens through the whole body, regardless, but in terms of getting the most off an infrared sauna, there's no doubt you really have to be exposed from all directions, from the side, your calves, your chins, your-


Mason: (18:48)

Your chins?


Sebastian: (18:49)

Is it what it is? No.


Mason: (18:52)



Sebastian: (18:52)



Mason: (18:56)

No, no, no. You said the right thing. We're just assuming that everyone has a double chin, at least when you're in the sauna.


Sebastian: (19:03)

That's right. That one too.


Mason: (19:05)

Okay. That makes sense. Because sometimes, that's where the front panels on Clearlight's are kind of coming in. Now those front panels, is that they're the only full spectrum panels?


Sebastian: (19:15)



Mason: (19:15)

And so, everything is a far infrared red panel.


Sebastian: (19:21)



Mason: (19:21)

Right. So if I'm just sitting there in front of one of those front panels, I'm having that come up to my shins as my chins and my chest. But from what I understand, it doesn't travel as far as the near to mid frequency. And so, that's where it's beneficial that when that flashes up red to get ... I normally get my knees or my lower back, or my ass, or my front, my balls, everything or whatever it is. I lean forward and get my face and the chest-


Sebastian: (19:54)

The chest.


Mason: (19:55)

... right. Is that the practise?


Sebastian: (19:57)

Exactly. So, these heaters that you see at the front, they are called full spectrum heaters because they do far, mid, and near infrared. And there are slight differences in it. And they're created by halogen bulbs, which run way hotter than our heaters in the back. And the difference in temperature is quite significant. So the heaters at the back, you can touch. They're maximum 110 degrees hot.


Sebastian: (20:22)

But you can actually touch them and you wouldn't burn yourself. Unless you're really, really sweaty. And then eventually it becomes hot. But the front ones are really, really hot. They are 250 degrees and plus sometimes. And so, you can't really lean against it. So from a technical point of view, we just decided to put them in the front. Also, they are so hot that you can't mount them on wood.


Sebastian: (20:44)

We love the cedar wood. There are certain benefits when using cedar wood in your sauna, beside that it actually is much more hygienic to do that compared to other woods. So what we found is that, let's say someone has a back injury. And near infrared is known for going deeper into your tissues and reducing inflammation faster because it has actually more energy.


Sebastian: (21:08)

That's also why the heaters are hotter because you have actually a frequency that actually needs more energy to actually be created. So those heaters in the front create something that travels deeper. And if you have an injury at the back, you would have to turn around and we haven't found another to, way around it. And it didn't seem to be a big issue because that's just one of those examples where it really, really matters.


Sebastian: (21:31)

But there are many things we ... If you're just stand in front of them, sit in front of them, you are actually completely exposed from the front end. And we see a lot of benefits. There is a lot of energy going into the body in a way.


Mason: (21:43)

And I'm trying to think of whether there's enough room to get a little stool or something.


Sebastian: (21:49)

In some saunas, there would be. And we are always working more on it. And I've seen some developments that negate that to quite a degree very recently that we're working on. And actually, while I talk about future developments, you mentioned that at the very beginning, like why Clearlight and what is it? And Dr. Raleigh Duncan who founded this company 20 years ago realised that there's a better way to help people than being a practitioner himself and through these saunas.


Sebastian: (22:18)

So I think what sets businesses like yours and ours apart, and many others out there is that there's a mission that is bigger than just, let's just sell many of these. But instead, thinking about like, let's just add a lot of value to people and figure out what people need and what they want and create it. And so, that's our company right there. There's heaters I think it's the seventh, maybe eighth generation of fine infrared heaters in the back.


Sebastian: (22:45)

I don't know how many different versions of the front heaters I've seen being created because we found a better way to create a better vibration, to create more health benefits to people. And I think this is really important because it also carries the whole of our team. They just know they're creating a better and better product that just helps people better than what it was 10 years ago.


Mason: (23:09)

Well, you guys are definitely engaged and I think it's also nice knowing you. I know you'd be the same in me that you wouldn't be able to keep on going if you didn't have a product that was quality and worked. Because at some point, it's vacant. It's interesting, I've seen...


Sebastian: (23:30)

[crosstalk 00:23:30].


Mason: (23:30)

Yeah. I know there's lots of people. I don't know who the competitors are anymore really. But I've always known and heard the stories from health celebrities who ended up selling a different brand, but actually use Clearlight themselves. Because we'll get to it. We haven't even talked about the low EMF yet. And on that, like another, can't remember what the company was.


Mason: (23:58)

But Daniel Vitalis is a guy that's been on the podcast, obviously, you know as well, he kind of was like, he was like, got given a good offer by another company. Got it. Went in, thought it was pretty good, tested the EMF. I think that the time, they were a company that were like we are either on par with Clearlight or gone past them. And he tested the EMF himself and he was just like, "This is a piece of shit," called them, said, "Come and pick it up," and then ended up getting Clearlight, getting Andy and-


Sebastian: (24:35)

And Raleigh.


Mason: (24:36)

... Raleigh on the podcast kind of going, "I'm sorry. I strayed from the flock." So, for me, it's good. Because I know when people are listening to this, they're like, "Yeah, yeah, I get you guys like Clearlight, but I'm like, no, seriously. It's like time and time again." But I mean there are several things and if anything you want to go into, but you might as well if you can lead it into what's going on with EMF [crosstalk 00:24:59].


Sebastian: (24:59)

Yeah. Well, that's the thing. So we, about 10 years, Raleigh was really serious and said, "Look, something needs to be done about the EMF and sauna." So the two, three different types of infrared saunas in terms of the heaters, in terms of the fine infrared heaters, they used to be really just hard rods, similar to what you see, I think, in a light bulb in a way, and then there was a magnesium put around it or ceramic and they would create the infrared wavelengths.


Sebastian: (25:29)

And that technology was made at the time. But it didn't have the right wavelength, it doesn't spread really over the body. So there are many reasons why ceramic heaters are just really, really old technology. The origin of technology has came out of the car industry out of all of them, because it was used to dry paint and people just started to use it because that was what was around in the beginning.


Sebastian: (25:51)

However, when the new technology came around, which is called carbon heaters, the EMF went through the roof. So, that's the magnetic component of an electric field. It really went wild, like up to 200, the World Health Organisation would say it's only three. Three is what is safe. So, way higher than what is safe. And Raleigh saw that. And saw that, well, these new heaters are great.


Sebastian: (26:18)

They really do a better job in creating the right wavelength. However, unfortunately, they have this EMF. And so, he came up with a couple of solutions, patented it, but then gave the patents to anyone who needed to use it. And so, here's the point when talking about good companies here. I just want to say that this technology is for free. We don't charge anyone for what we did develop 10 years ago, but some companies still decide not to use it.


Sebastian: (26:44)

And that is something that amazes me. It's a little bit like you using miron glass, the way that you pack your herbs, the way you source your herbs and so on, there is really a better way. And if you know about it, you just can't help but doing it that way, rather than going to something that you know will harm people. So, EMF overall, and I'm sure people have looked into it. There's a lot of discussion, especially now with 5G coming out.


Sebastian: (27:09)

But regardless, there's so many studies that just say you don't want to be in a strong EMF field ever. So infrared saunas that don't have a cancellation of that, of this EMF field to a healthy level, which is called to be three, but we really go to 0.1 or 0.5, whatever we can do and where you said it's normally zero. We wonder why you would not do that. And that's part of the electric field.


Sebastian: (27:36)

The other one is the ELF. ELF is electric part of it. And that was harder to cancel out or to reduce to really low level, but we did it. So we made it normal. It used to be 20,000. We got it down to 800. So quite a bit-


Mason: (27:52)

Can you explain what ELF is?


Sebastian: (27:54)

Yeah. So ELF is also an electric frequency that is considered not healthy for the cells, for the human body. And there are indications and studies again that show that. And we just want to be on the safe side with that one, which hasn't had as much airing. But basically it's an electric part of an electric field. There's a magnetic one that everyone knows about. Heard a lot of talk about it.


Sebastian: (28:18)

But actually there's also the electric part that has a lot of impact on your body too. So we cancelled that over time as well. I think it has been five years now that we've had that in place and it's basically grounding the sauna in a way and grounding the heaters that helps to take that electricity right out of the room.


Mason: (28:37)

Yeah. Cool. Yeah. You're explaining it by actually grounding the sauna. Because it's one thing to have a grounding rod for the plug in of the sauna. It's another thing to ground all the electrics, all the intricate electrics throughout the entire device. I can imagine that took some effort.


Sebastian: (28:55)

Yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah. It really does because you have to be really specific to make sure that it's done everywhere and the cords and the cords are not normal cords, the cords twisted and shielded and all the rest of it. So yeah, you just have to put intent into it really, and then you just have to make these things. So that's something that we have just always been focused on since we've created a product that really works well.


Mason: (29:18)

Where are we sitting at the moment with whether it's research or just what you know or what you've seen anecdotally from practitioners, whatever around heavy metals? Because it's been something that's kind of said in the health scene off the cuff. Pretty quickly, if the branding around infrared saunas from, well anyway, the particular health scene that we kind of came from like looking at like longevity saying, it's like, oh, yeah. And to get heavy metals out of the body, you have an infrared sauna. Where's that at?


Sebastian: (29:54)

It still happens. No, it's true. Is that what you mean? Like whether there was a fact and it was actually not really what people experience?


Mason: (30:00)

Yeah, I know it's true. No, it's true obviously, to an extent, because it's an overall detoxifying device. Just whether you still see that as like a standout of the sauna's therapeutic value.


Sebastian: (30:14)

Well, here's the thing like, yes, we get all sick and there are really specific reasons why a person gets sick and it's different for everyone. But one overall issue with our modern lifestyle, it's actually stress. It really is stress. And so, what we hear people saying is like, "Once a day, I have my Clearlight time," and that really opened our eyes to what it really gives people. And that's a space to retreat to start with.


Sebastian: (30:41)

But then the actual technology relaxes the body by dropping the blood pressure because of the vasodilation. You get in a really different state so from fight to flight to rest and digest. And as you do that, your body then gets the permission to start to heal again. It took me so long to really understand that actually this is so extreme. When you're on fight and flight, your body will just not restore.


Sebastian: (31:07)

It's not meant to do this at that stage. It's good that it doesn't do that because you have to run from the tiger. The issue is, if you create a lifestyle, that means your body thinks constantly 24/7, that you're running from a tiger. Your body just stops, replenishing stops really healing for good until you break or until you have a really long weekend and you suddenly feel.


Sebastian: (31:30)

And I definitely relate to it because I'm sometimes working too much and be in that state. So at the moment where you have that really long Saturday afternoon nap and you wake up and you're more tired than before, what really happens is your body just realises tiger's gone. I can relax. Now I have to restore. So, it's a long, long answer to your question.


Sebastian: (31:51)

But my point is like, stress is the number one killer in the world because of heart disease and heart failure and so on. And you just have to get into this rest and digest mode and the infrared sauna is fantastic for it. And it has 20 other benefits or even more and more come out. And the heat shock proteins that also is part of it. And I can talk about it in a moment as well.


Sebastian: (32:16)

But I guess I'm just pointing out that it's just a really good tool to get back to your relaxation part. And that really helps the body just like that.


Mason: (32:24)

Yeah, you're right. It is fun to get heady and look into the hundreds long [crosstalk 00:32:32] of the benefits. But you're right. If you want to break it down and relate to this practise as something which over decades, you're going to be able to continue to utilise and for it to not have this, "This is going to fix you from what sick or you're going to be detoxifying heavy metals in this session."


Mason: (32:56)

And kind of, you want to get out of that patient mentality and just go, "A part of my life is going to rest and digest."


Sebastian: (33:02)

Make it a foundation of your life. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many cool benefits anyway. I wouldn't just use it if I just wanted you to lose weight, that wouldn't be enough. That's not what it delivers. It delivers so much more.


Mason: (33:17)

Yeah. If you're only there to lose weight as well, it's an expensive investment just losing weight.


Sebastian: (33:24)

Yeah. Yeah. It is important. It's all good. But talking about other benefits, I'm thinking of we talked about the perfect range, but when I look at biohackers is like, like Ben Greenfield, what he does with our saunas, is he puts a cock over the temperature sensor to just let them run really, really hot. And because he wants to harvest something that's called heat shock proteins.


Sebastian: (33:46)

That's true for ... Cold plunges are also very popular at the moment. It's the same mechanism. So what your body does to various degrees depending on how hot it is, it creates certain enzymes in your body that start to fix your body. So, with extreme temperature, it becomes way more. So, that's what people like him do, but it's also true for way lower temperatures because your body actually responds to the infrared therapy like that. So you don't have to go that high. Yes. He wants to harvest the top. That's fine.


Mason: (34:20)

Of the heat shock produce?


Sebastian: (34:22)

Yeah. That's right. So they harvest, it's super complex. It's a field, proteins are so small and there's so many full. There's so many hundred thousand of them to figure out which one is which. That's not easy. But what we see a trend that definitely recovery works really well if you do infrared saunas. And some people do cold plunge similar thing. And even if the cold plunge is not like four degrees, but actually a bit warmer, it still does it. And that's my point. Like you get heat shock proteins, even if you are in a sauna that is only 45 degrees and it still counts.


Mason: (34:55)

Yeah. Okay. And I definitely appreciate that. And the middle path is going to be more conducive to actual longevity. It's hard to balance out such extremes and it's nice. You can get away with it, especially in like the cold plunging combination. You can get away with these things sometimes, especially if you're young and you're feeling really robust.


Mason: (35:21)

But then if it gets to a point where life is on, really on, and there's some crazy things going on and you want like a longterm lifestyle flow for sauna and cold plunging. Yeah. I appreciate that messaging because it's nice to have permission to know that you don't have be going a million miles an hour with like your sauna. Especially, maybe you don't want to be depleted.


Mason: (35:43)

Use a nice soft, like 45 degrees with the door open. Because you've tuned into your body and you feel maybe it's not appropriate to really push myself right now.


Sebastian: (35:54)

Yeah. Yeah. And the beauty about infrared therapy is that you can trust your body there. So we have people that would call after a couple of days of having a sauna and saying like, "Look, I actually have a headache." And I would ask, "Well, what's the temperature you're using that? And how long are you staying in?" "Well, we were so excited. We used a couple of times a day straight away like for 60 minutes."


Sebastian: (36:15)

It's like, okay, that might be all of this. Like, there's nothing wrong with you needing the sauna. It's a tool and it's so potent. As nice as it is, it is really potent. If you stay too long in it, of course, your body will be flushed with more toxins, but also there's more, you sweat more and all the rest of it. So you just have to really work with your body.


Sebastian: (36:38)

So people sometimes start like especially if they have health conditions, 20, 25 minutes, but they can build up quite quickly to a time of 45 minutes, if that's what they want, up to 60 minutes, we say. Of course, they are the extremists that do it way longer and they seem to be absolutely fine. But we always say, look between half an hour, 45 minutes, that's a really good time, that fits into a lifestyle normally, a Western lifestyle.


Mason: (37:00)

And you like doing the ocean minerals during and post sauna?


Sebastian: (37:07)

Yeah, as much liquids that you can do really because you do sweat them out. So, that's really important. And you can really make it routine. As you said, you jump on a rebounder before, that's fantastic as well. So, rebounding on itself is already good. If you make it a whole regime or thing that you do after work, you come home, you do certain things, including the ocean minerals. Fantastic.


Mason: (37:31)

Yeah. So we were just talking about this. We did a live on the Instagram before this and I was saying, I've got our mini trampoline, the Bellicon set up there, top quality.


Sebastian: (37:42)

Yes. Nice.


Mason: (37:43)

Absolutely top quality best well.. That's a whole different podcast talking about the benefits of the mini trampoline, the rebounder, so incredible that far out. And it's a little protocol. You have a jump, that's a cardiovascular exercise in itself, you're working the bone density, your working ... Every single cell is getting jolted and you're pushing out little stagnant fluids.


Mason: (38:06)

And you're squishing fat deposits that may be sat there a little bit too long. Every muscle gets moved. And then you do that for up to 20 minutes I think is the formal protocol. And then jump in the sauna for at least 40 and all that toxicity you've mobilised is further moved along through in a deep relaxation state. And it gets out, it sucked out, pushed out the skin, or dumped into the digestive system.


Mason: (38:32)

And that's what Seb was alluding to there and then important recharge, get those sea salt, if that's all you got, otherwise, get a good ocean mineral complex, stay really hydrated. And then there's a bunch of other things maybe we can tack on a couple of other little bonuses that people can do inside the sauna. But before we get there, because we want to wrap up soon. Can you just talk about this study around longevity and saunas?


Sebastian: (38:59)

Yeah. Okay. So there was a study that was done in Scandinavia. They selected 2,300 males over 50 that they would see. They just wanting to follow them for 30 years and see what their mortality is. So how quickly do you die basically? And so, the study went very well and they could see that if people use any form of heat therapy. So that would include things like the spa and normal traditional saunas, there's quite a bit out there. The sweat lodge is even they're still used. That's really awesome.


Sebastian: (39:42)

But what they found is that if you use it one to two days a week, there was a slight difference, statistically significant that you would live longer. If you use it two to three, there were certainly visible that you live longer. What we always point out in the number that we have in our head is that you use it four times or longer, four to five times a week, or even seven times, you live up to 10 years longer.


Sebastian: (40:11)

And that's not even an infrared therapy that has all the additional benefits to a normal heat therapy. But it was such a landmark study because it really explained to us a lot that what we have already seen, that people who actually do these things that they not only look better, they feel better, they have better health, but they actually live longer. It's a proper done study double bite and all the rest of it. So, we're really, really excited that that came out because it just explained what we have been wondering why so long.


Mason: (40:42)

Yeah. And my skin, it's chalk and cheese, my skin really feels vibrant when I'm doing my regular saunas and there's many contributing factors to that. But there's been a while there where I have pretty good skin and I look after my organs. So I've got that sheen and shine, but I've been really getting like a good run of four saunas a week, back again. And the difference is incredible. That's obviously something you'd noticed, but is that something you noticed like directly?


Sebastian: (41:20)

Yeah, pretty quickly. So something that people notice almost straight away when they use a sauna, are two things, and one is actually that they say, "I haven't slept as well for a long time," which probably is relaxation as well just nourishing the body really well because you actually have more fluids going around that type of thing. And the other one would be I hear from people, they're telling me that I have shiny skin.


Sebastian: (41:43)

And on that. So talking from a business point of view, we knew who our customers used to be, and they would be in Hollywood, they would be in New York, they would be in London. And those are the people that are in the show business because they knew they would look better. And then almost same time athletes would also realise this is really good. And so, I know some really well that some teams around the world, sports teams that have had infrared saunas from almost day one, because they realised that as well.


Sebastian: (42:13)

But those were the two paths. If you think about it, so recovery is something you can realise really quickly, you will realise it helps you. So that's good, really nice and tangible. And the next one is, how does your skin look? And then by the way, it's also pain management. So we have people with arthritis coming to us and I've said, "You will be fine, just test it anywhere. You would see what it does to you." So it's really tangible.


Sebastian: (42:36)

So these were the first people that came to us and really said, "I want this." And then more and more people with maybe slightly harder to see like weight loss takes a while. So those came a bit later to the party.


Mason: (42:49)

Yeah. The pain management thing was always amazing because that's why I like Clearlight. Because the customer service is good. Long, lifetime warranty. It's like that kind of ... But I remember you sending a couple of people, just buying them a couple of vouchers or I can't remember what it was. You sent them to a sauna.


Sebastian: (43:09)

Just to try it.


Mason: (43:10)

Just to try it and just to be like, yeah, like, just look on me. Just kind of like try it a couple of times at like what's... You know there's-


Sebastian: (43:16)

One of the spas.


Mason: (43:17)

One of the spas. They're popping up everywhere. It's like three different ones with Clearlights on is in Byron alone at the moment. For those of you that can't purchase them, you can go and just find this sauna of center. But they'd go and they'd experience their acute inflammation based pain kind of like become easier to manage immediately. I always found that incredible.


Sebastian: (43:40)

Yeah. Yeah. Really tangible, good to know that there is that to do. And I think that comes, if you look at health in a wider sense and I love you for many reasons, but I also love you because you always have a solution that often has nothing to do with going into surgery or to a doctor or something like that. If I have a tickle in my throat, I would, for example, stop that probably with apple cider vinegar or something like that.


Sebastian: (44:03)

If I have a torn muscle anywhere, I would probably go into an infrared sauna first before I do anything really extreme in terms of fixing it. And I think it just widens your toolkit. And infrared sauna luckily it's one that has a lot of different things that it does for you. So, the herbs, they are all tools and just having that awareness like this is right for me.


Sebastian: (44:26)

And if you couldn't buy a sauna, you just know, well, there's one around the corner and maybe this is only something that I can afford once a week. But if I'm run down, if I have certain things going on, that's a good time to really use it and just invest into, the couple of sessions to do that.


Mason: (44:42)

Yeah. Amazing. Now very quick. Fire around, little additional hacks and things that you like to do in and around your sauna. I'll throw a couple in as well.


Sebastian: (44:52)

You can exercise in your sauna. So some people do just yoga. Some people actually do hardest exercise, kettlebells, all of that. You can definitely do that. Handstand to get things moving even more, we have some saunas where it's easier because they are bigger.


Mason: (45:06)

It's like what Waz our warehouse manager Waz has one.. [Crosstalk 00:45:09].


Sebastian: (45:09)

He has the yoga sauna. So, that's a really good size to do stuff like that. Look, I find meditation is something that really works. You can really turn down the lights, there's a nice atmosphere in it anyway. The sound system is a good one, so therefore you can really create a beautiful space to really connect with yourself and get your nervous system right down.


Mason: (45:32)

That's a set up I haven't really focused on is getting a little padding underneath me, just get something under my bum so I can really be comfortable and have a nice, deep, relaxing. I do like lying down, don't get me wrong, but it's definitely something I've... Because I'm in the morning time having my saunas, I remain busy and I'm reading and researching, which is valid in itself.


Mason: (45:59)

I could never forget the put some magnesium spray and mineral spray on the skin before getting in the sauna so that there's an interchange. And I suck in that oil and as I'm discharging the bad oil, I don't know if that's true or not.


Sebastian: (46:17)

It makes sense. Your pores really open. And I'm sure it's absorbed. I would watch it because they could be quite tickly, like quite burny if you are deficient. But yeah, that's a great.


Mason: (46:29)

Yeah. Definitely. I'm lucky enough not to experience that. But what I do for good measure, I get it on points, which I find either a bit tight or have some tension before the sauna and then after I've gotten out and I've showered, I cover myself because I'm still, my skin's still open. Love that one. And then the other one is gua sha.


Sebastian: (46:53)

You're big on gua sha.


Mason: (46:53)

Yeah. I'm getting back into the gua sha. Just a nice ... I still got that gua sha that I was given by Tekaha in New Zealand when we went into that tonic bar together. What was that? That's something Grey Festival Lynn?


Sebastian: (47:09)

Grey Lynn Festival. Yeah. That's every year festival. Yeah. There was a good action in there. That was good project.


Mason: (47:15)

That was good. Yeah, tonic bar with all the medicinal mushrooms and all that years ago now. That's a long time ago now. And then next door was our, your Māori friend, Tekaha, his Scottish wife Pixie. And he was a carver. And he said, he'd carved a stone and he didn't realise what it was or the shape of it.


Sebastian: (47:37)

That's right.


Mason: (47:38)

And I'd kind of put it out there that I wanted to get into the gua sha at the time. And he was pulling out a couple of things because I wanted to buy one for my girlfriend at the time. And this stone flashed and he just put it away, straight away, hid it somewhere. And I was like, "What was that? What was that?" It just flashed at me. I chose what I wanted to buy.


Mason: (47:56)

And then he goes, "And by the way, this is for you." And he was like, "Yeah, that stone." It's just like a three pointed stone with different angles on the edge to scrape along the skin and you bring up the sha or the trapped wind, the toxicity or trapped heat of the body, pathogens in the body. And he handed that to me. He goes, "Yeah, I didn't know who I made that for. And that one's for you."


Mason: (48:20)

A really beautiful guy. I still got that. I'm going to get onto it now, but scraping, just along those areas where I have tension when I'm in the sauna and my body's opening up. Just incredible.


Sebastian: (48:30)

Yeah. Which reminds me, actually we have a lot of practitioner using it before they actually massage or treat a customer. You have to be a little bit careful because the body is extremely relaxed. The muscles can be really soft. So you really have to adjust your grip and stuff like that, but it really helps there. So if you have it at home and your partner wants to give you a massage as you do, then there you would probably have to watch it a little bit.


Sebastian: (48:53)

But that works really well because straight away the person that gets the massage is relaxed, which otherwise takes 10 minutes or so to really fall into that massage. And another one is, I have my sauna next to my swimming pool. So at the moment, what's the temperature in Byron? I don't know, but it's certainly cold enough to feel the difference.


Sebastian: (49:15)

So doing the changes of hot and cold, fantastic. I would love to have it plunge pool to do it also in the summer, a little chest freezer or something like that. But that definitely creates a heat shock proteins. Then it's just an amazing feeling actually. You wouldn't feel really alive doing it. That contrast.


Mason: (49:34)

Always one of the favourites, always one of the favourites. That takes me back to my when I was introduced to that when I was 19 in Austria, and we'd be drinking Schnapps in a sauna and then run outside and someone that got too close to the pool would get pushed in the pool and it's in the middle of winter there. And two meters of snow. Wonderful. So, hey there's got to be guys even just getting in touch with Clearlight just seeing what's possible different price ranges.


Mason: (50:06)

There's domes, just one man domes. That's what I got my mum on too. Because she's quite incapacitated, couldn't get her completely into a sauna. After her aneurism, she's got like a titanium plate on half of her head. So it can't heat that up, but I've got a dome, she's in bed, goes right over a body. Bam. She's got all these benefits. So, there's those.


Sebastian: (50:30)

We have very different sizes. Most of them are made out of cedar wood for certain reasons. It's eco cedar wood. So we have two person, three person, the sanctuary ranges where people love it has a glass front. So you can look out when you want. We have a yoga one, we have one with people who have disabilities and that they want to wheel into it really big ones there as well.


Sebastian: (50:51)

And in some way you can sit with quite a few people, so four or five people. And then we have the outdoor range, which are saunas that are highly powered because it's cool outside. So I have one of those. I have a dome as well, by the way. So I love them both. Both have amazing benefits. So, that's sort of the range that we offer to people and people normally find one that works. So, if you have a small condo, or a small flat, the one person, if you have outside area, great.


Mason: (51:21)

And hey, that code.


Sebastian: (51:23)

I was just thinking that. I was stumbling a little bit with my words because I thought there was something else I wanted to mention. And that's, so people really need to mention the name when they get in touch with us. And many people do, because they get a discount of, I believe, $150 on top of the discount that they might be around at the time anyway.


Mason: (51:39)

Yeah. That code's just Mason, right?


Sebastian: (51:41)

Yeah, exactly. Yes.


Mason: (51:42)

I need to double check that. I think it is.


Sebastian: (51:44)

You probably know. We don't have another big affiliate called Mason, so.


Mason: (51:49)

People know Mason.


Sebastian: (51:50)

Exactly. So, that's all good. Our team knows. But it's important to mention that. Yeah.


Mason: (51:55)

Cool. It doesn't matter whether you're in the UK, Europe.


Sebastian: (51:59)

Or internationally. Yeah.


Mason: (52:01)

International. America, do I need to get in touch with Sage?


Sebastian: (52:03)

No, I think you're all good. I think you're set up in America as well. So people get that benefit over there as well.


Mason: (52:08)

No matter where around the world guys, just drop my name. They know me. Yeah, guys get onto it. It's a beautiful longterm habit. I've had lots of friends who looked at it, looked at the price and rah rah rah. Did their research and went, "Look, I can't do it right now." And then saved for two or three years and now they've got one, they've got their Clearlight, they've got a lifetime warranty, and it's a part of their life and they're starting to chip away.


Mason: (52:31)

So you might want to combine with a couple of friends. You might want to just go and go to one of these spa places around the corner from you and use it a couple of times, but just get a long run up. Don't put pressure on yourself around it financially, but it's definitely a core recommendation in this world, and it's an absolute privilege to have access to the technology. So thanks Seb for bringing it to us.


Sebastian: (52:51)

Thanks for interviewing me. That was fun.


Mason: (52:52)

Yeah, that's all good. We'll do it again sometime.


Sebastian: (52:54)



Mason: (52:55)

Sebastian, are you active anywhere at the moment with your happiness work?


Sebastian: (53:02)

Well actually, I do have a podcast, it's called The Sauna Show. We had a different name previously, but the search anyway, I won't go there.


Mason: (53:12)

[crosstalk 00:53:12] cheesy name. You didn't go with my suggestion.


Sebastian: (53:14)

Your suggestion was The Hot Sauna Boys.


Mason: (53:16)

That Sauna Boys.


Sebastian: (53:17)

That Sauna Boys. That's right. [crosstalk 00:53:19] correct, you'd be closer to there and not das, das is German. It's great. And then if you type in sauna boys, you wouldn't find us, you would find all sorts of things. And you could imagine what that might be. So we decided to go The Sauna Show.


Mason: (53:32)

The Sauna Boys, what did that bring up?


Sebastian: (53:35)

We deal with it all the time. Yeah. So, that's something where you really want to make sure that Google understands who you are. But it's The Sauna Show. We interview people like yourself, actually, on it on a wider topic range of mental health as well of health in general, and combating modern lifestyle really, it's around that. And our Instagram that we use for Clearlight sauna stuff, which often has really inspiring stories about our affiliates, our commercial users, and private users as well. It's a Clearlight Life.


Mason: (54:08)



Sebastian: (54:11)

I've got a couple of features on there, myself. All right. Thanks bro.


Mason: (54:14)

Anytime man. Cool.

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