July is upon us, 30 days of JING has begun, and we have well and truly fallen into cooler temperatures that call for nourishment, replenishment, and slowing down.
Today on the podcast, we’re reminding you of all things warming, tonifying, and delicious to replenish you in these cooler months with wellness coach and Qi Food Therapist Kimberly Ashton. We love having Kimberly on for our seasonal Five Element food podcasts- she reminds us to eat local, eat for the season, and above all, eat intuitively.
Within the Five Element philosophy of Traditional Chinese Medicine, there is an understanding that the more we rest in Winter, the more harvest we can expect in Late Summer. Understanding this critical element of Water/Winter time helps us surrender more willingly into hibernation and doing-less mode. Just as nature withdraws to compound its reserves for the warmer months, so should we.
In this episode, Kimberly takes us on a journey through the flavours, foods, and cooking styles of the Water Element, explaining the philosophy behind eating and preparing food specifically for this season. Think salty flavours, dark coloured foods, Yin nourishment, and slow-cooked casseroles that leave you feeling satiated and warm. As always, Kimberly inspires us to localise our minds when buying produce, forage where possible, and eat intuitively- even if it means breaking the rules. Tune in and make sure you scroll down for Kimberly's deliciously warming black sesame superfood latte recipe.
"A lot of people like to skip this season, whether it's food-wise, nutritionally, rest, or reflection. In Chinese medicine, they take a lot of time and care with food, herbs, massage, and keeping the kidneys warm with heat packs and nourishing practices, because they really understood that the next year's health is cultivated now. So I do encourage everyone who is in winter to take the time to try some of the foods that we mentioned and the food list in the SuperFeast Winter ebook".
- Kimberly Ashton
Kimberly and Mason discuss:
- Yin foods for Winter.
- Winter shopping list.
- Cooking styles for Winter.
- Winter foods and flavours.
- Supporting local produce.
- The truth about soya foods.
- Foods that nourish the Kidneys.
- Wild foraging Water Element foods.
- How to eat if you have a Yin deficiency.
- Why we don't eat the same foods all year round.
- Traditional Chinese Medicine Five Element philosophy.
Kimberly's black sesame superfood latte recipe
- 1 cup soy milk, cashew, or oat milk
- 1 teaspoon black sesame powder
- 1/2 teaspoon black tahini
- 1/2 teaspoon walnuts/hemp seeds (blended into powder)- optional
- 1 teaspoon coconut sugar/brown rice syrup or sweetener of choice
- 1/4 teaspoon SuperFeast JING tonic herb- optional
- 1/4 teaspoon Mason's Mushrooms tonic herb- optional
- 2 Jujube dates, to enjoy on the side
- Add milk to a small pot with the black sesame powder and black tahini
- Bring to a boil and then simmer
- Add the sugar/sweetener, stir
- Add the walnut/hemp seed powder, stir
- Turn off the heat and add the SuperFeast tonic herbs, stir well
- Serve with the Jujube dates for a delicious morning or afternoon tea snack (alternatively you warm the milk and blend ALL the ingredients with the milk in a blender, including the Jujube dates- just remove the piths first).
Winter Kindney nourishing shopping list
Salty condiments, good quality sea salt, tamari or soya sauce, miso, olives, capers, sea vegetables, jujube dates, Medjool dates, blackberries, black beans, black lentils, kidney beans, black sesame, black tahini, lamb, beef, beetroot, seafood, walnuts, mushrooms, seaweeds, dark kale, black rice, buckwheat.
Who Kimberly Ashton?
Kimberly Ashton is a Holistic Wellness coach that focuses on the 5 Elements, Food Therapy and Chinese Medicine. She spent over 18 years in Asia and Shanghai, 8 of which she co-founded China’s first health food store & plant-based nutrition cooking studio. Now back in Australia, she launched Qi Food Therapy in 2020, a platform offering e-books, online courses, and coaching for “balancing life energy” through food, food energetics & emotional wellness. In 2019 she published her second book “Chinese Superfoods” in Mandarin, which encourages new generations of food therapy enthusiasts to explore Asian traditional foods, everyday ingredients & get back in the kitchen. It has sold over 7000 copies in China. Her approach is centered on cultivating an intuitive relationship with food and helping people understand their energies through food choices, cooking techniques, the 5 Elements, emotional & energy practices.
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Check Out The Transcript Here:
Hello, my friend. Welcome back.
Hi, Mason. I'm excited to be here, to be back.
Yeah. Full circle.
Yeah. As you just said, I think we had a couple of sporadic little podcasts here and there a couple of years ago, but this year we've started in spring. And each season we've been dropping in, which is when you mentioned Tanya's drawing. I want to just chat to you a little bit about that because when I saw her drawing that as well, I was like, it really reminded me about the winter energy. But something we've often alluded to and my acupuncturists used to talk about a lot, which I'm just kind of feeling the significance obvious saying people are often so out of harmony with nature and that's okay. They're just living in what I call a bit more excessively living in the world of straight lines and a colonised kind of mindset, which isn't a bad thing. It's just in excess. And he was like when people start getting back onto the trajectory of harmony and I kind of see that moving towards our destiny with rhythm and in harmony with the...
And flow. The orchestra is like there's song and dance and everything in time. And that's how I kind of perceive health at the moment. But he was like, in the beginning, you can't just jump back into the seasons. It's just the pendulum swings too far. And it's too complex. So quite often people will need to live on the earth and at the middle of the medicine wheel and what connects all of the elements being the spleen soil sitting on the earth and go through a cycle, just sort of getting little hints of the differentiation of the season.
And then once they've been there and there's a bit of harmony through that middle [inaudible 00:01:55], then all of a sudden, then you can start living in harmony with the seasons. And just reflecting now with you, maybe the first year I've really sat in the energy of each season extremely. And it's been really nice having these anchor points with you to talk.
Yeah, I loved it.
And I can really feel something different for me this year. And in this moment, feel that connection to the wheel of life. Yeah, this is just so great.
I love that. Absolutely. Me too. I mean, we live and breathe what we do, both of us, but also with the five elements. But food is such a powerful part of that. And to actually sit in, not just the food itself, but also we can talk about cooking and ingredients, herbs of course. Lifestyle, I've also noticed that probably the last two years, just the opportunity to... Because I used to travel a lot just to be in Australia and just go through full two years, well, two and a half now, cycles of each season. And there's a lot of grounding in that.
And just reflecting on that earth element, as you mentioned. Yeah, the earth element is that transition point. So we can look at it as a wave, as Tanya was drawing in her drawing the other day or we can look at it in the five-element circle cycle, but it is always important. But you can also correlate that to the earth itself in nature, right? It's the middle line, everything grows above it or below it. And that's the same in our stomach and spleen and digestion. And sometimes for a lot of people in their health, it's just to come back into that centre and then they can go back out. And the beauty of the five elements is you can also, as you know go to the opposite element if you need to fix something or rebalance something. So there's a lot of power in health when you can see it through the five elements.
I mean, we've got that common terminology and language and that is what is the ancient tradition of the five elements with simple classical Chinese medicine, yin yang wuxing. That's it, just yin yang and hone in on yin yang. Let's have a look at our little magnifying of the yin yang and we can see that there are these five transitions that reflect reality and nature. Tanya's picture such a simple one. It was like a diagram, as you just said, that earth is that middle line and the wood does grow, a little bit of permeation down, down into the soil, more so concentration of coming up above the surface into the atmosphere. Obviously, fire up in the sky, light up in the sky, coming back down to earth and then starting to descend down to where metal is created within the earth.
And then going to water and dropping down and seeing water all over the place. But where is it really accumulated, especially in the aquifer aspect of that five-element wheel? It was little impetus. We've got the five-element language, but of all, it is you can throw away the language. It's just about touching yourself, not touching yourself, touching the reality of yourself and what's going to bring harmony and what is going to take you out of harmony. It's just people wanting to be in control and for thousands and thousands of years, and this many ancient traditions. We just love to understand and being in control, so we're not crossing our fingers. So I love these chats and I'm looking forward to really dropping into the winter energy right now. And yeah, what's your relationship with the watery decks?
So my predominant element just in personality is wood and little earth. So I don't mind the water or the winter season because it gets me closer back to wood. So I'm like even after the solstice for us, the winter solstice recently, I actually literally felt the last few days I've been like this new energy. I'm like, "Oh, we're coming back up. Here we go." We're going back to spring even though it's the middle of winter. So definitely I enjoy winter, not so much for the temperature. I know people who just love it and the hibernation and all that. But I do actually enjoy the winter foods and the selection and flavours. So in the kitchen, I'm happy with that, with the actual season itself of hibernating and being quiet and slow. It's really taken many years to embrace that and surrender to it. There is a lot of surrendering and less doing. And so that's been a mantra for me this winter already is, do less or try to anyway. So yeah, that's my personal reflection and relationship with water.
I want to jump into, just want to jump in straight to food and her.
Just for me, just in reflecting with winter. Because I think quite often people when we talk about different practises or different approaches to a season, I know some people are like, "Well, I mean, do I change my entire temperament? How does it work?" It's just for me just having a little anchorage point about when I have a meditation feeling and I start there just plunging into water and experiencing myself. Not having anything to grab onto, but just falling and gliding through darkness in the water. Just that little simple little impetus is enough to get me in that winter energy. My temperament, I'm firing up into a certain level of intensity, but I can do that from a grounding of water at the moment. I just want to kind of add that in there for anyone that's maybe overthinks it. And so your [inaudible 00:08:02] doesn't have to get caught and cooked as we talking about inappropriate cooking of the spleen.
Yeah. That's a great way to get sick is if you overcook your spleen or any other organ, but particularly the spleen. But yeah, definitely. And I think as we talk about food now, there is this idea of the water element, not just food, but every aspect of our life through the winter months or the cooler months. And of course, if you're listening and you're not in a very cold climate, like if you're in the tropics, it also applies for sure. I know I get that question a lot. I live in Thailand or Singapore, you still have that part of the cycle. So time for nourishment, replenishment, slowing down, whether it's three months or one month, it doesn't matter, but really having that. And I'm finding it as well, very important because then you can go around that cycle and then enjoy the rest of the five elements in the seasons from a place of rest and energy rather than... I used to just keep going the whole year. And a lot of people also eat the same foods the whole year round which isn't necessarily balancing or harmonious.
Have you ever seen that list of 15 foods that most people like. I think it's like 90% of the world is like 90% of their diet is like from [inaudible 00:09:25] when there's like list of 15 foods. That flipped me out the first time I saw that.
And just because something is healthy, like people will eat kale or broccoli all year round in copious amounts. That's not necessarily the right energy or the right colour or the right flavour. Yeah, that's not how nature intended for the most part.
Even farmer markets, like extremely localised farmers' markets, are just so [inaudible 00:09:51]. I mean, I think there's been a lot of people moving around, moving into different parts of Australia or even just like different parts of a city. And if you want to try to look for a place like where you know, where you should move, move to a place that's got a lot of farmers and got a lot of market.
I mean, that alone... Gosh, I can't remember all this huge list of things. You don't really need to, it's getting a diversification of matter, getting your ratios, I guess, right in terms of like understanding where meat sits or doesn't sit or how much vegetable matter or [inaudible 00:10:27] kind of what ratio it is. And then if you just revolve around a cooking style and you just then bang.
Keep it simple, yeah.
Yeah. Or just have more of certain foods in certain seasons. So it's not to say you can't have broccoli all year round. I quite enjoy broccoli personally. But I would have it more in the right season or we're going to talk now about dark coloured foods, blues, blacks, the darker the better. So in my head, in my experience, would eat them or gravitate towards more of them in winter. However, if I needed that energy, whether it's for nourishing the kidneys or the adrenals, or for a little bit of blood nourishment as well, you can go to these foods in other seasons as well. But for the most part for winter there, in terms of food therapy, there's a goal for each season. And so we came out of autumn where we were talking about hydrating and nourishing the lungs and the large intestine in winter, which is all about warming, replenishing, and tonifying.
I like also the language of Chinese medicine, because there are words that we don't use in Western nutrition, like tonify. They're like, "What's that mean?" That's not a word when you talk about proteins fats or carbs, but it is this beautiful understanding in Chinese medicine. So that's something for people to think about when they're looking at their foods and also picking ingredients. Winter's also all about the salty flavour is a different flavour, predominant flavour in each season. Again, it's not to say you can't have sweet and sour and spice as well. But having foods that are inherently salty and having a little bit more salty condiments, like good quality sea salt or tamari or soy sauce, miso, olives, capers, like all these beautiful, natural and sea vegetables are really nourishing for the kidneys rather than adding just lots of salt.
I've been nourishing my kidneys with capers since I think I was-
Oh, I love capers.
... three years old. It was like my favourite food of like [inaudible 00:12:39].
Really, oh. That's great. And people are drawn to different flavours. So I get a lot of people, but mainly salty or sweet. But people are either sweet fans or not. And then you ask them and then they're like, "Oh yeah, I do like salty." Chips or capers or whatever it is. But the point being that we all need to have a little bit more good quality salty foods or condiments in this season in winter. So I mentioned just now the dark-coloured foods as well. So the most common ones, the most obvious ones are like black beans, black lentils, kidney beans, black sesame is a really popular water element, Chinese medicine food. And not just the black sesame seeds themselves, but you could have black tahini. You could toast the sesame, the black sesame seeds. I really want to share today, give people examples and inspiration because food lists are great and there are lots of them for Chinese medicine, whether it's the energetics of the food or the colour or temperature, thermal nature of them. But people often say, "Well, how am I going to use all these ingredients?"
I mean, we've produced a food list and even I look at that sometimes and I'm like, "Gosh, there's got to be a better way." And I know...
It's a good start. No, no, it's a good start.
Good start. And I know some people are like, "No, give me a list and I will go and execute." And for me, but you...
That's the metal people
You're tending better metal people. That's my ultimate weakness is people who have metal ways of thinking and I'm trying to sprout and do things chaotically.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm the same. Total wood, total wood. So food lists are great. But yeah, if we just talk about black sesame for a while, you can sprinkle on anything obviously. I like to toast them just a little bit to release the oils in them and then put the cool and put them in a jar. I like to make black sesame pudding and soft textured things are really wonderful in winter. So poached fruits and cooked stews and puddings, whether they're sweet or savoury. So you can use any milk of choice. I like to use a soya milk. We'll talk a little bit about yin and nourishing the yin later and soya is a wonderful way. Good quality soya product, so soya milk pudding, black sesames. So it becomes like charcoal grey. It's delicious. It's very easy and simple, but it's very relaxing in that way and you're using your black sesame.
You can make crackers with them. You can put tahini on your oatmeal which is a nice winter breakfast as well. And also black Sesame oil, fantastic way to get that in really good for the yin nourishing part of the water element as well. So those are some examples or uses of those beans are a little bit marvellous. People make soups and stews and casseroles with them. Meat, if you're a meat eater, great time to have things like beef and lamb, especially in terms of that warming, tonifying, replenishing goal for food therapy in winter. So now's the time. With all of these, of course, in terms of yin yang, we don't want to overdo it. So I don't want everyone to go out and eat copious of black sesame or lamb. There is a fine line to...
Yeah. And that fine line you and you mentioned, and I think that's kind of what we were talking about at the top is sometimes this is just a little bit too far. It's a little bit too much for you to integrate that level of like, "Oh my gosh, okay, this is good in this season." Then it kind of gets put aside and then maybe your energy is somewhere a little bit more close to home. And that's where we say, stay in spleen land. Don't worry about these rules. Stick to the foundations of that earth element. And then, all right, now I've got a little bit of capacity to acknowledge black foods. Okay, cool. I'll do that a little bit, but you've got your base and you don't have to-
... overthink because that's what your spleen is doing. You don't have the capacity to digest all of this information. So I love that you always put that out there.
And it's also from personal experience when I was living in China and I started, I just went crazy. I was just in heaven. I was like, "Oh, there's all this depth to nutrition and food and energy and colours and things." So I just absorbed it all. I was the opposite. Some people don't have a capacity and that's fine. Like I said, just add one thing a week or a month. It doesn't matter. Or just know, "Okay. Kimberly and Mason talked about dark coloured foods. If I'm going to the market and I see darker coloured kale. Like Tuscan kale or dinosaur kale, that's darker than normal. Curly kale, maybe I'll try it because it's darker." Just start there. Oh, I found blackberries or black beans or something and you just go, "Oh, okay. I'm just going to have that." And that's fine.
Even for me, I mean the thing that really got me over the line was the cooking, the styles of cooking. And even though I'm still on in life and sometimes I completely forget and I'm having something drying in Autumn, I'm like, "Okay, whatever." It's not like I'm...
But if your body wanted that, and there's a reason, always listen to the body.
But it's just that...
Have it. It's fine.
It's such an easy... We'll get into cooking styles and it's probably pretty obvious season over, it'll be slow seasons. And everyone gravitates in winter to slower cooking and nourishing meals. It's the easiest place to go. And you just create a couple of cult classics in your little family of one or 10 or whatever it is. That for me, it's like, so you've got the broccoli and you're like, "Okay, cool. I'll just alter the way I'm not going to do a light steaming maybe this season, I'm [inaudible 00:18:28] really get it cooked."
Going to put in the oven with all the other veggies and do a roasted mix of vegetables. Yeah, no, I'm happy to talk. The cooking styles is a little bit more intuitive and easy. So we can pause there and talk about that and get back to the foods. But breaking it down and really making it simple, if you just think of cooking styles and across every season and every element, just think about time and temperature, that's it. So the longer time at a higher temperature is more suitable in winter. Shorter time, lower temperature in summer. You can have more raw foods. You can have more steamed or quick sautes. But in winter I definitely use the oven more. That goes for baked goods or roasts or vegetables, fish, meat, whatever you want to put in the oven is fine.
Pressure cooker. I love using as well. Slow cooker. Yeah, and soups and casserole. Anything that's going to help you feel satiated and warm and replenished, just go with that. And just know that we shouldn't use the same pot or cooking style all year round, just like food. That's the simplest way to do it. And that being said, if you feel like something like a salad or pickles in summer, there's a reason your body could be overheating. You could be highly stressed. So then you'll eat that. And same in summer, some people need roasted whatever in the height of something, for grounding and calming down. Maybe that energy is gone too high in the fire season.
It's really, I mean, [inaudible 00:20:02].
You dip into winter and you borrow the oven for a meal. It doesn't matter.
I mean, that's the point. Pointing that out, there's these little caveats of Chinese medicine which are always there and are annoying if you want absolute certainty. But I guess the absolute certainty lies in yourself. That's like when Tanya recently, because I don't know whether I've made myself ironically bitter about raw food because I was so extreme and I'm still kind of getting over the charge of how deeply I went into that excess. And I did so well on that diet that just got to the point where I was like, "I can just feel this isn't going to go well long term." [inaudible 00:20:42], obvious reasons. But then she was just pointing out. She's just like, even though the weather is a bit cold, she's like, "You do so well." If I have a bunch of fresh food, even if like salads, despite all the research of things and all the you know, I do really well. If I've got a lot of fresh food salads and even smoothies, my spleen just chomps through them.
So I'm like, "Okay, get out of theory. I'm going to start having a little look."
We have to listen to our body. And the wisdom of five elements and everything we're talking about is applicable for the most part. And it comes from observing nature and people's reactions. However, these days, no one is stopping work for three months over winter and hibernating and reading books and sitting by the fire. That's not reality. So if you're busy and your constitution needs a salad, I would definitely listen to your body.
I wouldn't mind that reality though.
Well, absolutely. That would be ideal. Take at least one month off in winter.
One month off in winter, that's a really good. The whole escaping winter to go and find summer because that's kind of a little in my mind, I'm like, "Oh yeah, maybe that would be nice." But I think having done enough snow seasons, it's just about going somewhere where you can properly enjoy winter. So it's like maybe if you're going to escape, I know this is like a [inaudible 00:22:13]. I don't know, this is like a pie in the sky. Everyone I hope you don't think like Mason. Yeah, God. Yeah. Mason, everyone has a holiday home and ability to go and take a month off. This isn't my reality yet.
A week is fine. If you have to ask...
I'm manifesting. I'm in manifestation mode. So let's just put our life as the best ever. We can manifest any reality, but remember, there's a lot of practicalities around the liver planning and then the spleen reflection. It doesn't just magically happen because your heart desires it. Anyway, that put aside. That reality, I'm just thinking that vision board of that little heart. For me, it's in Patagonia. It's going to somewhere that has a real winter. I escape winter here in Australia, go and have a month in my little Patagonian shack where it's proper snow. It's all fire, cook and fire. Like that and you immerse yourself in that winter experience. I'm thinking it's perfect.
I think as you said, it's just having your own little tradition. It's like your own thing that you do on a weekend that goes away and immerses yourself in that energy and it wouldn't be the same if you weren't there in winter.
Yep. And you touched on a really important point too. This idea of escaping. I mean, that's a whole nother topic, but we don't want to escape the foods we don't like or the season that we don't like. So many people all over the world will escape winter to go somewhere tropical whether it's Thailand or Florida or wherever people go. And I realise that, we're born into a world where there are seasons and there are these elements and we can't just keep chasing summer or for some people chasing winter. That's all they do, they chase ski holidays.
[inaudible 00:23:55] ended up in that life and just last minute kind of decided...
We need that balance.
Yeah. So going back to food.
The black coloured things I mentioned, dark coloured things. Beet root's really good as well. Not only for the blood, it's the colour of the blood, but it's just a fantastic nourishing. It's got sweetness to. It's got saltiness to. It's got green leaves and it's like one of the most perfect balanced vegetables I think. Can do so much with it as well in the kitchen. You can roast it. You can make soups. You can make stews, casseroles.
Just something that the level of abundance. Thanks. There's so much and so many excessive things about civilization and the colonised world that are horrendous. And we need to feel, in terms of yin yang harmony, we need to be able to feel how horrendous those are. But just thinking about these vegetables, a lot have been hybridised and which is [inaudible 00:24:58]. It can be a natural process. It can kind of go a little bit too far. But just getting these foods that are so close to that original, that is so widely available, like beet root and these pumpkins, having access to these foods, sometimes I'm really, really trying to ground in this experience and the depth, especially in winter of the gratitude. The fact that we get to interact with this ancient philosophy and that have access to a food like beetroot is so incredible. It is such a miracle that we get to do this.
Absolutely. And then you explore the different colours and variety. The supermarket carrots, pumpkins, beetroot, they're fine. They look pretty, but if you look at the variety of pumpkins and the colours of it. Like beetroot and all the tubers and yams and all of that, I get fascinated every time I go to the farmer's market and see purple radish, like watermelon radish pink ones. I'm like, "These are amazing." And you cut them open and they're just [inaudible 00:26:01].
Yeah. They're like purple and white and they have this. It's just like a painting. It's stunning. So I do encourage everyone to... The foods that I'm mentioning, if you can get the heirloom ones or the organic ones or the local farmer or somebody who's growing it in your area or yourself, of course, if you have a garden. That's what we want to talk about. That's the where the nutrients are. It's where the good energy is. Very, very different to store bought, commercial produce. Yeah. Let me see what's next. On my list, I have a very Chinese ingredient, the jujube date or the red date, also dark coloured. I know it's wonderful in-
It's quite widely-
... every season, but it's...
... widely available now.
I know, it is.
Like Australian grown.
I only get the Australian grown ones. We're lucky just outside of Sydney, there's a farm that has them fresh. So in the farmer's market, they either have them fresh or dried depending on where they're at. Yeah, I get so excited. I buy two bagfuls at a time and I just eat them or put them in tea. They're really good in energy balls or bliss balls or whatever you want to call them. And I actually have a recipe when I was in China because the whole bliss ball, energy ball craze, and everyone's putting cocoa on them. And the Chinese palette is very different. So I'm like, "Oh, we'll put like walnuts, black sesame, I think put almonds as well, or hemp seeds and the jujube date, the red dates." That's all, you blend that up.
It's the best energy ball ever.
That's the boss. I don't know, that's the only appropriate way to describe that. This is [inaudible 00:27:43].
Man, I'm thinking get a little tremella in there.
You can definitely put your tremella powder in there. I will talk about yin foods as well, but tremella's high up on the list. I'll explain what yin means in that sense as well. But yeah, you could totally add a whole bunch of other things. You could put some Jing powder in there. I haven't tried with the super food stuff, but that would be a great idea actually. Get creative with your snacks, even make them seasonal as well. Smoothie, I actually don't have a smoothie recipe. It's a warm smoothie, but I used to have it in my cafe where we had warm soya or cashew milk, or you could use oat milk. Tahini, sorry, black tahini or black sesame powder, walnuts, red dates blended into a paste. It's the same what people would do with [inaudible 00:28:34] dates or Western kind of health food things. Just make them a little bit more Chinese medicine focused and black sesame and red dates throw them into that. I call it like my black latte. It's like dark grey and it's the most wonderful nourishing... Yeah, maybe I need to write the recipe. We'll put it up on your website. It's delicious.
The recipe thing, I think the bridge towards these recipes and some of these foods, you're getting so many options so that they can integrate into a long-term rhythm for your personal diet and your family's diet. And we're very aware that your life, most people listening, your life isn't in your diet. It's not going to become all of a sudden completely aligned and dominated by Chinese medicine. But there's hinting and nor is it the purpose because it's called Chinese medicine, but it's not about China. It's about the principles. And so it's just remembering that these principles will slowly integrate with your personal life flow and that's what you want. You want it to become just one of the informing pillars. It's not the dominant pillar. And then, these little recipes pop up that you only do this recipe when you go away to your little winter Wonderland.
Yeah, that's right.
It's just little, I think I said little traditions as well. Around the solstice, there's a little tradition of this dish. And then that, the family kind of associates it like, "Oh, mom, I don't like that. I wanted to eat normal food." It's connected to something, like things you only do at Christmas time. Anyway, all these little hints, I think a lot about it. So I just want to like share a little bit, so everyone kind of gets, make sure that this is grounding in.
Yeah. And if medicine and what we talk about and what you advocate as well, it's not about only eating Asian super foods, you could say. It's about getting that inspiration, that idea, and then seeing what you have locally. So people listening from America, from Europe, from Australia, Asia, what do you have that's dark coloured? If you're in Thailand, go eat more black rice. I mean, we have good black rice too in Australia, for example, or good walnuts. I'm going to talk about mushrooms and seaweeds next, very wonderful winter element. Sorry, water element winter seasoned foods. Finding what you can that's growing locally as well. So if you can find the red dates that are from New South Wales, get them. It's a local ingredient or look to native Australian bush herbs, if you want. Find those ingredients that are supporting, because every traditional food culture has these principles, they don't call it five elements, but they exist. And they knew what to eat in what season. Colour, flavour, functionality, it's all there.
Yeah. Well, it's a means to interact with your environment. And you mentioned seaweeds. I mean, there's so many different degrees.
We have such good seaweeds in Australia, people don't even know.
People don't know as well that it's probably, if you want to get into wild foraging, it's probably one of the easiest things that you can forage and there are. It connects you to the tides and to the sun lines at a particular. You're going to have a particular drift within the ocean that lands you a certain type of seaweed at a certain type of year. And then there's a tradition around going and having the harvest. Maybe it's finding someone in your area that's already doing that for you or there's people going [inaudible 00:32:14] farm, getting [inaudible 00:32:15] quite regularly now and selling that at markets or go and do a workshop. Or yeah, just support someone who's got an open book about how they forage and you can connect with their story by there. Say, "Wait at this time of year." It's a connect. It goes up the list of Kimberly. Mason said, "It's a really good thing to have [inaudible 00:32:34]."
Yeah. Go explore. We just want to plant those seeds. And mushrooms is actually, if you talk about foraging, I haven't been on them, but there's plenty. There's more and more foraging weekends or days where you go out and you learn about the mushrooms. I mean, there's thousands of types of mushrooms. I'm going to mention the more common ones you can get in your local farmer's market or your local grocery store, even. But most people eat white button mushrooms all year round and that's it. But what about shiitake mushrooms, portobello mushrooms, Swiss brown mushrooms. My favourite of, we call them black fungus in Chinese, but wood ear mushrooms is a nicer English.
Those are so good for the kidneys and the blood and the yin. You chop them up, put them in a stir fry. Put them in. You can put them because they look like olives if you chop them up really fine which is what I like to do with olives. Put that in a bread. You can make a lot of these ingredients more Western style. You don't have to cook them in rice and noodles and things like that, although I love it. But get creative, like just put them into Western risottos. I love buck wheat risotto. In winter, it's a very yang grain. It's very, very warming and nourishing. Then you can put all your fabulous mushrooms in there, put some Rosemary. You can make things more Western, that's what I'm trying to say with this whole Chinese medicine thing. It's just principles and ideas and then you make the flavour that you want and the local ingredients that you have. So yeah, dark coloured [inaudible 00:34:03].
I mean, I can't remember. I know Diego, oh gosh. If you could put Diego Sydney foraging.
He did a bit, I know there's the belly of the world. I think it's called mushroom meander's up this way. There's lots of people doing mushroom foraging. And especially when you get the right time of year and you get that little Eastern European. You get that kind the forage jump that's got that Eastern European [inaudible 00:34:35] energy about them. And they're like, "This is what my family's been doing for hundreds and hundreds of years of going out into the forest." When you get into that period and the rains come and [inaudible 00:34:46]. And then saying, "And you go out to the blue mountains and get all your slippery jacks. And you find mushrooms." And that is...
That is great. I don't see it in Sydney as much, but watch out at that. I think, at that Autumny time of year Autumn and winter, watch out for those pines in slippery jacks, because they're super, super common up in the hills of Sydney. And that's a really great way to connect to your environment.
Definitely. And just getting out to explore, I mean, where you are there's obviously a lot more community and people that are doing this, but definitely outside of Sydney, there's a new, I think it was a Facebook or Telegram group where it was like find your local home gardener. And just like you said, outside of the outskirts of Sydney or any big city, wherever you are in the world, there are people growing things in their garden and all their land and they have a lot more than if you live in an apartment. Connect with them, do a trade, or buy from them. They're usually growing too many mushrooms or whatever it is and support that. I think that's where we're going with more, really local local produce. And that's the best energy of the food. That's the best season. You don't even need to think then. They're going to grow things that are in season.
It'll keep people sane. I think people don't realise that you don't need to cut off ties to this ultra connected globalised world. Now for some reason I'm highly aware of riots that are going on in Ecuador. Because it's a thing my friend, my cocoa farmer friend that I talk to and I'm like, "Gosh, I have to be aware of that." In order to survive being aware of that, I need to be connected to the extreme localization and bartering and sharing system. And I dream of having little holidays where we drive out towards say by the Lightning Ridgeway whereas to the Salt Plains and go and collect enough salt for us for the year. I'm really trying to plant these seeds. I just have no time for that right now. But it doesn't mean that shred of connecting to seaweed harvests, to those people, whatever. That localises your mind so much that it's like your spleen needs that connection in the process. How much global awareness that it has. And this is what this anchor is that we're talking about.
Yeah. And so the beauty is that people are already doing this. Everything that we're talking about, mushroom foraging, seaweed, foraging, growing stuff locally, they are already doing. You just got to find them. And there's no excuse not to find them at this day and age with computers and technology and Instagram and things like that. So definitely, definitely. I wanted...
When you talked about meats was pork on there, salty pork, is that [inaudible 00:37:38]?
So pork, technically in Chinese medicine, wouldn't be in the winter element. However, as with cooking styles, you can take ingredients from another element or season let's say, and adding salt or salting, curing things, whether it's fish or meat is definitely a traditional way of preparing food and storing food. So yes, it tends to be more beef, lamb. And then some of the seafood can be really nice for the yin nourishing. I do want to talk about that next. So pork itself as a meat, not so much. But if you're going to make, I don't know, a pork roast, that's a very different. Using the energetics of the cooking to change the food. It is really hard with fruits, vegetables, meats, seafood, anything grains, because everything's available all year round now. So I understand that. And it's not to say you can't eat pork if you want to eat pork in winter. But again, it's just more about the cooking style as well.
And it's funny, anyway, I don't need go onto it. Pork, I find it's a funny one to fit in. It's always got a little bit of a cheeky character that says like, yes, in this instance, but mostly no for most people. But [inaudible 00:38:51].
Technically. Well, the thing is within the Chinese medicine, Chinese people argue about, not that they would do it, think about this all the time. But experts would argue about where to place meat and especially different types of seafood in an element if they had to place one. But from all the food charts I've seen, it tends to go more into earth element as a neutral kind of meat, because it's not hot like lamb. And then chicken kind of, well, I guess people eat chicken all year round, but they tend to put it more in the wood fire earth than in winter as a thermal nature. But yeah, you guys have a really wonderful winter ebook. So I'm just reading through a lot of the beautiful spices are really nice to add to. You've got black sesame seeds, seaweed, things like that in there.
But I do want to note that as warming and delicious and healthful cinnamon, ginger, cumin, star anise, chilli, and clove let's stop there, are for most people, there is something called a yin deficiency. And I just wanted to point that out because it's quite prevalent, especially in women that I see and work with. And it's definitely food related. So what that is, is in the water element in the winter season, we are about nourishing the kidneys and the yin in general, which is the fluids in the body. So it is important to, you mentioned not having so much dry things or also heating things. So the yin Chinese medicine is blood, lymph, and all liquids are sweat, saliva, all the fluids in the body. And what we do, especially in the modern world is we deplete this yin. So just think of that as water and blood for ease because we're stressed and we have a lot of these hot natured, spices and foods, alcohol, coffee, chocolate as well.
So for anybody with a yin deficiency, and this is only for the people with yin deficiencies. So if you've been to acupuncturists and they mention these terms, go easy on these hot warming foods and spices, even though it's winter. And it's a tricky one for a lot of people, but it's almost like you're overheating on the inside. It's the easy way to describe it. And in winter we're trying to cool and replenish those beautiful fluids through the blood and the water. So what I'm saying is that copious amounts of chai, it may not be a good idea, lots of chocolate and coffee and alcohol might not be a good idea either for anybody with a yin deficiency, even though it's cold and we're supposed to be having these warming things. So just keep that in mind.
Cinnamon's not even warm, like cinnamon's hot.
Exactly. Yeah. Certain things are yeah, on the thermal nature of the food scale. Yeah. Be careful of warming and hot. Just don't go to hot. You're having a lot of heat in the body, but you're also drying that fluid. And you'd know this, if you have menstrual irregularities, skin issues, other things can be inflammation, anxiety as well is also a sign. But I'm not suggesting to diagnose anyone. I would definitely see an acupuncturist. But it's something that people are hearing more of. And so looking after the kidney yin and the liver yin, the blood, the fluids. It's a perfect time to do that as well in winter. So lots of cooling, hydrating things. Tremella is a classic autumn and winter herb where the, sorry, food ingredient, if you can get it whole, otherwise the powder form. I like that you suggested to put it in the bliss ball or you could even put it in that sesame latte, that would be delicious. And then things like tofu. Avocado is always on the list for yin nourishing foods. But again, it's not necessarily grown in winter. So just be careful of that. And seeds, all the sesame seeds, sunflower seeds, flax seed, [inaudible 00:43:02] seed. Yeah, all of that. Really nice.
I know soy is a polarising one because some groups have just made it the absolute staple of their diet. And therefore I think quite rightly you see terms like soy boy kind of coming up, which is just, yeah. I mean just an excess of yin and a food outside of it's appropriate usage. It's such a great food, but it brings out emotion in me. Like I hear that because it's the GMO stuff and then they're like replace milk with soy, it's just like, "Oh God."
Yeah. So my comment, because I get that a lot, even in Asia when I was there, but definitely more in the west where people are turning against soy. So like you see things that are soya free. I'm like, "Have we gotten to the point where it needs to be labelled soya free?" The only reason that soy is an issue in my personal opinion and experience is that in the west we've gone, over the last five, 10 years from when people going vegetarian or vegan they've overdosed on the soya.
And every traditional culture in Asia that ate soya, never ate that much. They didn't have soya protein shakes followed by soya steaks and tofu this and that. They just overdosed on it. If you look at it in China, Japan, Korea, Southeast Asia, it was a little bit of good quality, usually homemade soya like tofu and there's thousands of beautiful shapes and sizes of tofu. Then they would have very well fermented soya sauce, maybe some nato or miso, it's a condiment and stuff. It's never used to be like a tofu steak and then protein, processed soya protein powder which is not organic or helpful. So we need to look at the way soya used to is, sorry, not used to be, but is consumed in those cultures and then eat it like people in Asia eat it which is not how the Western world we consume. So that's where the problem is.
Yeah. I mean the charges there, because it is such a beautiful, powerful food that has so much [inaudible 00:45:10].
And there's so much science behind it. Whether it's breast cancer or protein source, it's a good quality food when fermented well or produced well. Even in Asia, there's arguments about the way tofu is made a traditional way or chemically processed way, same issue. We need to be looking at teaching people how to actually make tofu in a really good way with no chemicals and proper fermentation rather than white squares that are highly chemicalized and hard to digest. Absolutely, it is.
That's a good distinction. Because I tofu is just not in my reality. And just the texture, I've got a phobia from when I was a kid.
Of silicon tofu, yeah.
It's like egg white-y tofu. But I'm overcoming it slowly.
Well, then that's amazing. In Australia, we have good quality tofu, but we also have really amazing Tempe. I've been discovering all sorts of new brands and we've got like Lupin, Tempe, and all sorts of beans. In grains you can make Tempe from and they're well made. They're like good brands. You don't get that soft texture. So you could definitely try some Tempe in this season.
Tempe's in the circulation I'll say. The whole population we're onto that. But I mean, yeah, the tofu distinction around chemical production versus traditional, I mean, of course I'm like, "Yeah, of course that exists." But I never had that as a barometer [inaudible 00:46:44] ever going to be buying it. So that's good to know. I mean, I'm sure we can go and do our own research on that. But I'm glad you brought that up because it's important.
Yeah, it's a wonderfully good source of helping you cool your body, nourish the yin which is really the season in the water element. That's what we want to be doing through our lifestyle, through our foods, through our cooking is to not overdo it. And most people need the yin nourishment whether it's yin yoga or yin foods or yin ingredients.
Just the excess. I mean, everyone needs to feel interesting. And I hate to say this because most people aren't integrated enough. So they can't sense how interesting they actually are. So we need to go and seek extremes on the edges in order to feel interesting or to feel like you have a place. And then that's what you see the excessive vegan narrative, which isn't that many people, to be honest. We talk about it like it's a huge part of the population. It's not, we're just focusing on it because they're polarising and there's men and women who just overdo it, on say things like tofu, which is the yin. And then you can see what the result of that is.
And then a small part of the population, which wants a lot of attention in itself is that extreme yang going carnivore, I'm going to have bull testicle powder all year round and it's all meat all the time. And just going, never eat soy because it decreases testosterone in this way. That level of science-y extremism as well to be like, "Hey, maybe at an appropriate time of year and day, maybe it's not a bad idea to have some of these foods that are yin." But if your spleens out of control and you're like, "No, because there's a study that said and this person said on online, that testosterone is lower." So it's like, "Okay, okay, okay. Just dude, get out of that land for a second, go do something you can feel. Sometimes it's all right for you to chill. And other times you need the yang and go jacked." It's just harmonise.
Yeah, absolutely. And you see it on the flip side, I mean, I'm more of on the plant base side, but you see a lot of vegans who are the same and sometimes you just always make a joke. I'm like, I just want to give them a whole pan of roasted vegetables. They're not going to eat the meat because they need that yang grounding energy and that warmth because they've been eating salad and sprouts for 11 months of the year. So we need to understand that balance and really that's all what it is. It doesn't matter if you're vegan or paleo or anything in between. It's not about that. It's about understanding the energy of the food, the seasons, and having that balance because definitely I totally agree with you in terms of excess. But it's a matter of perception of what is healthy and a lot of it isn't balanced. It's far, far from being balanced.
So far from being balanced. Always my barometer there is how interesting are you? How much could you be a fun person to be around at a party? Can you actually have a good conversation with people at a party? Which is another unfair one because some people don't do great in social setup.
In parties, yeah.
But it's not about that or parties or anything. It's about do you have the capacity to manoeuvre internally, which is what's so nice about the seasonality of what we're talking about. Because it gets you into different zones and acknowledgements of different emotions and different parts and processes of yourself that it teaches you about the diversity of yourself and that diversity inherently takes you away from an excess of thinking a particular way or being resistant to a particular something and go, "Ah." You keep on going through the process, you need less and less of that polarisation. You come into your centre. Then for me that's an interesting person. That's an internally diverse person. And the reason I'm so savage on that is because that's identified in myself at times. I'm like, "Dude, you're getting boring." I'm getting bored. I'm your internal monologue and I'm bored talking to you.
Yeah. And that's such an interesting point if you tie it back to food, because people do find food boring or they're not interested in it. And obviously, it baffles me because I'm like, "But it's our connection." And I love cooking and I love being in the kitchen and being around food and produce. But that also could be a sign for people who are listening or maybe not listening about food and they've lost that appetite and it's an appetite for life, not just food. They're so out of balance within themselves, so we can tie that back to food and I see that a lot as well. It's not that we all have to be chefs or grow our own food or things like that. But it is a basic human energetic to be interested or have a good appetite for at least one to three meals a day. So when you find yourself being bored by food, obviously there's cultural and upbringing factors in this as well. But in Chinese medicine, when you have a healthy appetite, it's a healthy appetite for everything, right. It's not just food, but it's your job, your career, your family, friends. You're excited about life.
Yeah. I said that to one of my team. So there's a manager yesterday and I was just like, "The way that way you do. One thing is the way you do everything." So I'm like was just talking about the team in terms, if you see something going on, there's a boundary between say here, like personal and professional, that's a very strong boundary. That doesn't take away the fact of the acknowledgement that when you're out of here, the way you're doing life outside of the business is the way you're doing life inside of the business. And we were just laughing. She's like, "It's so annoying because it's so true." And I there's nowhere to hide. There's nowhere to hide, if you know that in your heart. That's true. You're like, "Damn it." Accountability and it's like [inaudible 00:52:51].
It's a great thing to just acknowledge, gently acknowledge without making it wrong or bad. And then becomes the adventure of, "I wonder what would be interesting?" And I personally find that sometimes looking back first into your past, "What did I use to enjoy?" When I came out of raw foodism and I was like, "What was it about going with my friends to get some fast food that lit me up?" And I know it's not going to do the same now, but I went on my excavation journey, starting there. Like, "What was it?" It was because I was doing something a little outside of my box which I felt was mundane and it was interesting. And then I could see that peeled away when I started travelling and started taking on a little like, "Oh yeah, I can see that led me into maybe a little bit more romantic harmonised connection with food."
And just saying, "What did light me up when I was in Italy? What really lit me up when I was in Argentina?" And I went through that or even just which restaurants did I like and I liked talking to a particular chef. That excavation journey for me has led me to going like, "All right, there's something there. And I'm going to go on the adventure of seeing what it is to genuinely get me excited." Because it's hard to manufacture that. Like, "Yeah, I love food. I love this kind of..." No, you don't.
And that's a wonderful, I guess, observation and reflective quality for everybody to think about if you're in winter in Southern hemisphere or you're going to be in a couple months. It's such a powerful way to reflect and stop and think like, "Why did I like raw food?" Or whatever it is we're talking about. Now is a perfect time for that. Pausing that quiet winterness, whether you're in, where was it, Patagonia or in your backyard, it doesn't matter whether a cup of hot tea.
Manifesting. I'm manifesting Patagonia for one month a year.
Yeah. You could practise in Tasmania.
That's true. a, I mean, literally, it's the parallel of launch off points to Antarctica.
There you go.
[inaudible 00:55:12] which is an 18 hour flight away, or just go to Tazzy night.
Just go drink your nice hot tea in a log cabin in Tasmania. But anyway, yeah, the point being it is a time for reflection. So I think it's a beautiful season and I've certainly been embracing it more. Technically it's not the end, like metal is more the end of the season and the cycle. And then winter is getting ready so that we can rest and be ready for the next season. And yeah, coming into the wood element in spring. But if we skip the season, a lot of people like to skip this, whether it's food wise, nutritionally, rest, reflection. In Chinese medicine, you don't get the next cycle the next year with as much energy. They actually take a lot of time and care with food, with herbs, with massage and keeping the kidneys warm and heat packs and ginger and all this nourishing practise, because they really understood that the next year's health is cultivated now. So I do encourage everyone who is in winter to take the time to try some of the foods that we mentioned that, the food list in your ebook is great to the winter ebook. I also have an ebook coming out if I can finish it, which is more recipes. So that'll be on nourishing the kidneys, the water element and to others as well. So yeah, now's the time to do it.
Yeah. Qi food therapy. So Q-I, because we spell it correctly.
[inaudible 00:56:56] to spell it, but yeah.
Yeah. I mean, quite often people are like, why the hell did you have like a product... Oh, it's not here.
Qi, they're like, "Why do that to yourself?" And I'm like, "Yeah, let me say this. What can I say? I like things interesting and hard for my team.: No, of course not. Honestly, it's not like, oh, you're honouring the tradition route. It's literally, I'm like, "I do what I want." That's that's why I like.
Well, the people that do speak Chinese or spent any time in Asia will appreciate the spelling because it's how it's spelled. So we just got to get our head around the Q, but that's okay.
Yeah. qifoodtherapy.com and then on the homepage, just scroll down a couple of little blocks and then you will see free bonus when signing up to email newsletter on the left sign up today, go and do that. And you...
Yeah, I will let you know when...
It's actually three eBooks that are coming out. So then we complete... Actually it's good time to complete things in winter. So complete that set, complete that cycle. In there will be a fire element book. So fire, metal, and water. So for anybody in the Northern hemisphere, hopefully it'll be good timing for your summer as well.
Yeah, just print them out, keep them. Just mark and draw over them, just that's the way to integrate this stuff. Just have it in your zone, have it in your environment, your kitchen.
There's a bit of theory and then recipe. So it's a bit of both. So you can learn more about that element season and a predominant condition of each season. And then yeah, some just recipe ideas. Which is funny, because I like recipes, but I actually prefer more free styling. So food lists and recipes are great, but please take them and then make them your own like add stuff to them, change it, please.
I love it. Yeah, I have a phobia of putting measurements in recipes as well. It's like, "You got to." I'm like, "Do I though?" Anyway, that's the only thing holding them off doing a tonic recipe book, which I've got probably a hundred tonic recipes sitting there and I'm enough salt so that it does this and you experience this kind of...
That's my kind of recipe book. Yeah, but no people need measurements. I get it. I get it. But hopefully once you build more intuition and this goes with anything in the kitchen, the idea of recipe is... Obviously, if you're baking, it's slightly different. It's a bit more technical and you don't want to wing it too much. But with tonic herbs, beverages, soups, rice dishes, salads, you make it your own. That's a good reminder. And that's what we need. We need tonify those functions that lead to intuition being present. Great. Well that was beautiful. I really, really enjoyed that one. And I guess yeah, getting that feeling of capping off that year with the metal, which is such a pivotal. People miss metal, but then the idea, missing winter it's like, it's a tragedy. It's like Shakespearean in its in the depth of tragedy that happens if we don't continue to just each winter, get that smidge little bit more refined in experiencing the water aspect of life. Yeah, I mean, I love having altar.
Having altar here at that super feast and we've done the announcements. I'll send out my CEO newsletter soon. Just reminding everyone that when we're in this water season, look around you. What does it mean? What did you think about when you're talking about Jing herbs and that water energy, what comes to mind? Go and add to the altar. Look at it. Think about it. Anything you can do to ground in this [inaudible 01:01:28]. Oh, I mean, we won't go into all the qualities of what, how, bit of it. Just anything that gets you practising , just coming and sitting and chilling [inaudible 01:01:38].
And lastly, I'll just say, yeah, love your kidneys, because that's what we're talking about, right. That nourishment and restoring of energy. Now's the time just let your kidneys have a rest.
You mentioned heat packs.
Oh, I love it.
I want to come up with a superfeast heat pack at some point. So how do they work? Is it just [inaudible 01:01:57].
I just do them. Well you mean in Asia, you get them the little sachet things. I remember in Japan, they have them, you open them, you shake them and you just put them on your belly or your lower back. So either the belly button or the Ming Men and it just warms you. I do it at home with ginger, taking it back to the kitchen where you get hot ginger in a pot, sorry, hot water and ginger, you boil a lot of it. If you need a recipe, it's about five to six slices. And the ginger water goes yellow and then you get a towel. You pop the centre of the towel, holding two ends. You ring it out, you just pop it on your lower back, your kidney area. Do that about four or five times. It's the best therapy. I reckon every massage place in Asia, they do that. It's actually a treatment. Kidney, what do they call it? They call it a kidney ginger pack or yeah, therapy.
My gosh. Well, I think everyone's feeling snugly even just thinking about that kidney pack is definitely happening.
Thank you for helping us all love our kidneys.
Interact with that kidney water within us.
My absolute pleasure. Have a lovely water element and winter season everyone.
Yeah. And also congratulations on your online summit, which for everyone, I mean, there was so many people. I think I was in the middle of having a baby, so I wasn't able to participate. But I did see there were so many amazing people participating in presenting on all manner of things. Is that becoming a product?
Yeah, so it was called Dimensions of Qi back in May. And we had 35 speakers across food, acupuncture, Qi Gong Yin Yoga, and a bunch of different modalities. And I'm doing another one, you're invited, in November. Dates to be confirmed probably around the 18th which is my birthday. But that weekend probably a week. It'll be food based. So it'll be Dimensions of Qi or Dimensions of Food and Herbs. So it'll be all master classes or yeah. So it's going to be great. So you're invited, everyone else listening is invited as well.
Yay. All right. So jump on the mailing list, everyone over at qifoodtherapy.com. You'll get via to know about that. Also follow Kimberly on her Instagram, @qifoodtherapy. See you next time.
Thank you. Yes, we'll see you next season.
See you next season.