Yi, Bringing Spirit into Matter with Stephanie Nosco (EP#186)

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“The Yi stays on earth as the legacy of our actions. So it is what we've built here and it's as we're tilling the soil, it's that fruit, it's the footstep. The Yi leaves footprints. It's the only thing that will leave a footprint. So whether that's raising a child, that's the legacy or whether it's writing a book or whether it's starting a business, it's the legacy. So it matters and that's the thing, that's the question is what matters.” - Stephanie Nosco

Stephanie Nosco joins Mason for another instalment of our Five Element seasonal series. Today we're exploring the Earth Element and Yi; the Spirit of the Spleen. In this insightful conversation Stephanie shares the simple lifestyle measures we can take to nourish our Earth Element and allow our Yi to express freely.

The Spleen/Earth Element corresponds to the practical magic of our daily toil, when harnessed with intention and care, this is the energy that allows us to anchor our visions and materialise them into tangible form. Yi is at the centre of this manifestation process.

Yi is intercepting medium between what is of the heavens (Yang) and what is of the earth (Yin). Yi enables us the ability to reduce our projects into achievable bite sized tasks, think the methodical magic of a well written to do list.

In relation to the seasonal cycle, Yi and the Earth Element are connected to Late Summer, the period that follows the Yang of Spring/Summer and precedes the descent into the Yin of Autumn/Winter. 

This energy is characterised by digestion; whether that be on the physical, mental, emotional or spiritual planes.

Yi governs intellect and applied thinking; processes that allow us to make sense of our experience through the organisation of thoughts and feelings. Yi is heavily interconnected with the Shen (cognition and clear thinking) and Hun (higher vision/planning), when all 3 are working in harmony we are more equipped to live our lives on purpose, devoting the chop/wood carry water of our daily actions to the embodiment of our destiny, and the establishment of a legacy that will exist beyond our physical form.

 

Mason and Stephanie discuss:

• Yi, the Spirit of the Spleen.
• Moving Earth; using the Five Elements to create bonds and boundaries.
• Writing a to do list as a spiritual act. 
• Pacifying overwhelm with celebration.
• Bringing dreams into fruition and the energy or I vs we; individuation vs unity.
• Navigating the upper, middle and lower worlds with Wu Shen.
• Devotion and legacy; the relationship between the Fire and Earth elements.
• Using Spleen energy to bring yourself back into centre.
• The diaphragm; embodying Heaven on Earth through breath.
• Rumination, knotted Qi and Damp Spleen.
• Consumerism and Spleen imbalances.
• Lifestyle tips to consider when working to nourish the Spleen/Earth Element.

Who is Stephanie Nosco?

Stephanie is a dedicated yoga teacher, meditation guide and Medical Qigong therapist based in Calgary, Alberta Canada. Her teaching style and philosophy has developed throughout years of exploring Buddhist and Taoist studies, as well as through using movement, breathe and meditation to manage her own mental, physical and spiritual health. Her most recent interests surround how spirituality, energetics and psychotherapy intersect and just completed her masters in Counselling Psychology. Her psychotherapy practices is informing deeper layers of learning about the human spirit, in how to better support people in their life and practice. With over a decade of experience leading yoga teacher trainings, silent retreats, workshops, and classes, Stephanie is most interested in bridging the gap between ancient teachings and modern life to help people reconnect to what is meaningful. Stephanie views Yin Yoga, Meditation, Qigong as methods to re-awaken what we already know. She founds her teachings on the principle that empowering this inner knowing is the true guide towards genuine healing, health and awakening. 

Resource Guide

Guest
Nosco Yoga
Stephanie's Instagram
Stephanie's Facebook
Yin Yoga Teacher Training 
Stephanie's YouTube channel

Mentioned In This Episode
Mantak Chia
Lorie Dechar

Related Podcasts
Shen, The Heart Compass and Fire Element with Stephanie Nosco (EP#185)
The Wu Shen and Alchemy Vs Ascension with Stephanie Nosco (EP#123)
Calm Mind, Joyful Spirit: The SHEN blend with Mason and Tahnee (EP#91)
How To Eat In Spleen Season with Kimberly Ashton (EP#151)

 

Check Out The Transcript Below:

 

Mason:

All right, Steph, here we go. I was ironically unorganised in making sure we'd booked this. We haven't booked this one in after Summer, but I guess it was such a crazy time. But yeah, here we are. We did it and I'm so glad we did because I needed to drop into this space, to be honest.

Stephanie Nosco:

And this is the hardest one, when I do the courses that I run on the Five Spirits, everyone is so gung-ho when we talk about Shen and Hun and my truth and the idealistic dreams and visions, and then when rubber hits the road and we get into the Yi, that's often when we feel like holy crap, this is getting real. Sometimes it's easy to lose steam.

Mason:

I mean, I know that's for me as well. Before we got on, I was talking about one of my, I guess you'd say teachers, but acupuncturist he would just be like, "I think you are a Spleen person." And he's like, "That's all I can go on based on every time I see you, it's all Spleen." And then finally I started shifting into that Essence in Qi and it started moving. It's like, okay, no, it's moving somewhere else. But my gosh, that is the bottleneck for you and I think that happens with a lot of people, I've just spent everyone's probably sick of me talking about it, like the Operation Spleen at SuperFeast.

(01:19)

I've got one week left of it. It's been a whole year and only in this last week true to how I've always done everything crammed in the last week, it's smashing me in the face and just the profoundness and how easy it is to avoid, under the grass you actually go into the Soil and the Earth and you get into that world. We're going to explore it today, but oh my gosh, part of me wishes I could run away from this one a lot, but my goodness, it really is where the rubber hits the road. No, yeah.

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah, because it's sometimes easier to stay in the heavens in the realm of we've talked before about plant medicines, but when you're just floating above your life thinking about wouldn't it be nice to do this or I've been thinking, oh, wouldn't it be nice to write a book. And I have all these ideas about this book, but when it comes to actually opening the laptop and staring at the blank screen of the page or whatever, when you're starting a project, it's like the Yi is all about the follow through. And it's like that. It's where your idea and your ideas and your dreams and your visions start to hit the material world. And then you're like, "This is dense. This is dense." Then you start to feel the struggle of what it is to be in a body.

Mason:

I mean, we were talking about-

Stephanie Nosco: (02:48):

Yeah, it's a lot easier not to be in a body, to be human, but we are human.

Mason:

Well, because I-

Stephanie Nosco:

For Spirit-

Mason:

I got plant medicine world. I think everyone's heard, we've talked about it a lot. I've definitely gotten lost in the vision of what's possible for the earth and what's possible for my business, what's possible for me and the family so on and so forth. Then because I had such genuine intent, I've dragged myself into the material world because I'll stay and I'll show up again and again and again and again because I'm subconsciously tenacious. And that forced me out of that bubble and blindsided me so hard when I really hit the material world and what's possible. And yes, these rules don't apply because you don't like the founding principles of the universe you may be able to tap into. But regardless of whether you like it or not, you do not have dominion over the earth. That infinite love space, if it needed to be the exact same thing as this material planet, the earth just wouldn't exist.

(03:51)

When you enter into that place, it can't override some of the foundational principles that we're in right now. And so we're talking about Siddhartha, I think about it a lot. He goes through these phases running naked through the forest for those two years or whatever it was, and all the study before that, clicking over into the transition into the phase of the material world, which was business. I really relate to that as well because I've retracted from that spiritual world and living there. Now my challenge is to bridge between everything there that I know to be true and then what I'm feeling deep in the business world and the material world and the asset world, which really excites me at the moment. I tell people SuperFeast only responds to impact. It has say profit as a part.

(04:43)

But when I'm in SuperFeast and I'm in the CEO seat, I'm like great, pulse check on profit or gross profit or whatever's relevant. But it's only when we create impact in these accidental for people, accidental benefits that show that they've had a moment of integration or have a moment of expansion and we get those testimonials or that's the only thing that it responds to. If I started a business now, that would not be the case.

(05:13)

I think regardless of the fact that impact would be important, the profit I would make I would feel the idea that would come now would have profit and been a supplementary business to others to make them more sustainable by taking down their margins or something like that, localisation would be, because that's where I'm at in that. But it doesn't work if I just go and now and decide as a CEO, this is where I live now in material. I've got SuperFeast sitting up there in vision land and sitting down here and learning these principles. And then it goes, all right, now here's the integer, which is where we're at today.

Stephanie Nosco:

Great. And this is like my work is all about how do we bring Spirit into matter. Do they necessarily need to be two separate things? And this is the Taoist concept of the three worlds, which are actually all happening all at one time. But the upper world, which is what we talked about Shen and Hun and then the lower world, which is our animalistic nature, Po and Zhi. And then the middle world, which is the Yi. The Yi is really the pivot point between animalistic nature and our virtue. And you know what I love so much about the Yi Spirit and the Spirit of the Earth Element, if you look at the character of it, it's the Heart. It's a beautiful character. Have you seen it? It's like this little bowl with two, three kind of specks.

(06:47)

But above it, it's like the character for the mouth or someone singing or a music note. So this idea is that the Yi is actually the heart's song. It's the heart singing itself into the world. So I find this is such a beautiful character because the Heart is about our truth. The Heart is the Shen's message. But now it's when I'm going to sing that truth, I'm going to sing my song into the world and you don't just sing it once. Once is never. I have this saying in my trainings and my courses like once is never. That's the Yi's mantra. It's showing up again and again and again and again. And it's like, okay, can I sing my song and keep singing my song and setting the boundaries also to protect my song, to protect my truth. So I really do feel though, Mason, as you're talking that your business in some ways is Yi, it is bringing the Spirit into matter, whether it's through this podcast or whether it's through the supplements, the beautiful product that you offer, it's happening.

Mason:

Oh yeah, it's happening. I know we had a little chat beforehand. You've got your own thing going on and it's been a massive theme. I was talking to Jost on a live the other day. Sure. We've talked about Jost, German Taoist who lives here, and I'll send you some of his stuff.

Stephanie Nosco:

Oh yeah, send me some of the stuff. Yeah.

Mason:

I actually had a little feeling at one point that we'll get on some three-way podcasts and things like that. It would be so cool. But we were talking about fog walking as a Taoist practise in the sense of the Spleen, if it's not digesting and it's overly Damp, it will pop up a mist. And that mist represents the mundane and the dumbing down of the song. And I think about it a lot, the safe space of say music is to go to what's industrially safe and make sure it's a path that's already been taken in terms of a style of music and how much tenacity and bravery it takes to produce something that isn't a traditional type of song, it isn't a traditional rhythm, but it's something that you know can feel is the way that your song wants to express itself. And majority of the world in the beginning doesn't like it because it's like, oh no, not used to it.

(09:06)

There's those special few that resonate and it's whether it's your personal work or whether it's the business product or just who you are that you don't really need to homogenise and go to the mist, that's an institutionalisation. I feel we're in the swing of that unique expression. Not everyone will like it and those people that don't get it, that get angry at you and say, "You're such an idiot, this is not going to work." I think of that guy that told Queen that Bohemian Rhapsody will never be accepted on the radio and stuff. Those are boring people and bless them, I'm boring in areas. Those are boring, mundane opinions that this is where the savageness of the Yi comes around and that not literally anyone in particular but your Earth needs to move and bulldoze those things from your reality and you can follow that Heart song. Oh, sorry, you just spurred that out. I love it. I love it so much.

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah. I think also where people get tripped up that I see a lot because I think one of the things I think about what I do and I'm like, yeah, I teach Yin yoga, I teach Qigong. But really what I do is I teach people how to follow their Tao. Your Tao being about your Heart song and everyone having your own truth. And one of the places we get tripped up is what other people think. And then also this doubt, you think of the Spleen when it's really stagnant, there's a feeling of being frozen and not being able to actually set those boundaries or speak that truth or walk the walk.

(10:45)

There's almost like this fear and doubt that can also stagnate. So I think that also is part of the work because we worry the Spleen is all about that worrying. We worry, we ruminate and then the more we just stay in the head, that rumination of thinking about it but not actually following through like, oh, I should set that boundary with that person or I really want to write this book or whatever it is. It's like if there's no movement, that trips up the Spleen and then we're just frozen and that's like that stagnancy that...

Mason:

What's the pattern of those boundaries? And maybe this is jumping ahead, so maybe you've always got such a beautiful structure that we run through. So I definitely don't want to jump ahead. Maybe we can just get into your rhythm, but I always feel like the bonds and boundaries come through from Spleen and that's such a nice thing. Oh, beautiful, boundaries. I can tell someone, no, thank you. And that sounds so and oh bond, like a bond with a person that's really nice. But it is again, the hardest thing to move Earth. If you get told you need to build a big wall here, so you need to move this much Earth from here over here, that's a Herculean effort that's going to take too long if you try and just do it yourself rather than get into that passion of movement from Wood to Fire to Spleen.

(12:04)

And you can move the tectonic plates internally and actually just through maybe the rock, it's more difficult transition but literally create a transformation that moves the topography of your body and throws a boundary up and opens up the channel for you to bond with those people or things or yourself that actually need it. Just that rhythm because I really sometimes struggle there going, okay, that's right, I need to put up a boundary. But what are the conditions energetically and through that transformation cycle that lead to the boundaries emerging?

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah, so I mean my teacher, Lorie, would say that actually boundaries is a Fire element thing and really it's the Heart, but it's both. They're never just one or. So I would say that number one, to find the space in your life where you can actually hear your Heart and what is true. Because if there's too much, if you think about the fire, if there's no space, too many logs packed in on the fire, there's no space. The fire goes out. Similarly, if our life is so busy and there's so many things, which is also a Spleen thing, when you're too full, you can't hear. You can't even hear what your song is. So I think the first thing is knowing the truth, knowing what your truth is, and then being able to set that boundary. And that's like with the fire officials, we're talking about the Triple Warmer.

(13:31)

How much of myself am I putting out into the world? We're talking about the Pericardium, which is like that yes, is this me or sorry, yes or no. And then we're talking about the Small Intestine, is this me or is this you? So it really comes down to Fire, which is interesting, that character, going back to the character, the Heart song, is it is a Heart thing. So it's like once we know what that song is, now we actually have to sing it. So when you just gave that analogy of like, okay, you have all this Earth and you want to go and move it, you can't do it all at one time. So to think, oh my god, I got to do all of this at one time, that's like eating a giant meal really, really fast and then until you are completely bloated and you're going to throw up.

(14:17)

So it's like one step at a time, one bite at a time. And that's what the Yi is it's like I'm going to do this one thing today, check. I'm going to do this other small step today, check. So it's like the taking of the Earth and bringing it over and then dumping it down and then another wheelbarrow goes over and dumps it down and it's that consistency. I would really say that when we talk about Yi, we are talking also about intention and intention can be thought of like a goal, but it's more like constancy. So yeah, I can set that boundary once, but I actually have to keep doing it until it becomes a pattern. And that's what the Yi is doing is it's this constancy, I'm setting the intention and then I'm actually following through because the heart knows what its boundary is, but the Yi is actually going to be the follow through. Again, it's where the rubber meets the road.

Mason:

We're here probably technically we're moving past the real peak of that Late Summer. We're really in that transition of entering into the Autumn realms here. You can still feel. It's obviously the longest transition point between that peak Summer and then the Metal. So when you're in it, whether it's a time of day or time of year, in order to make that innate, that wheelbarrow in order to actually land in that space, what practices and temperamental awareness?

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah, I think it's that when you think of Late Summer, there's the gardens and I don't know what it's like in Australia, but up here in North America, the gardens are really full, the fruit is heavy, it's like hanging off the trees and there's this abundance. So oftentimes when we're in this Spleen-y kind of time, it can feel like the emotion is like I'm full or I'm overwhelmed and can feel like that being that we're just talking about are like, oh my gosh, there's so much all at once, I don't know where to start. So on a Spirit level that can look something as simple as writing a to-do list. Okay, you have these dreams and visions, you have these ideas, but how are you going to execute? So writing a to-do list is a really great Yi thing to do and don't write down a big thing, write down a small thing.

(16:57)

So it's not on your to-do list, you're like write book or start company. That's not an actionable item. Make it super small. I'm going to call that contact who has another contact for that business call that I can get on. So it's those little tiny steps and then another thing is that when you do the step is to celebrate it, to check it off and be like, "I did that." Because if you don't have that moment where you're like, "I did that," then you never really put your feet on the ground. When you say, "check, I did that," it's reminding those Spirits there has been a follow through.

(17:43)

So it's like when you harvest from the garden and you bring all of your food in and you set it out on the table, you say a blessing, you're like wow. And you're taking a moment to actually be nourished by yourself, to be nourished by the follow through. It can be overwhelming in this season, but it can also be really bounteous and very joyous. So it's a moment also to celebrate that. So my Qigong teacher always says when you do your Yi to-do list, check it off, celebrate that you did that really be like, "Wow, I did that," before moving onto the next thing. Because if you're just like next thing, next thing, next thing, next thing, that's also going to keep your system feeling really overwhelmed. Does that make sense?

Mason:

Oh yeah, makes a lot of sense. I mean, I've had a lot of big insights around that. I mean I've got so many to-do lists at the moment and I think there's the upper realms which are really we energy, it's really, really excessively united. And then there's the earthly realms of I and-

Stephanie Nosco: (18:47):

Individuation.

Mason:

Individuation and evolution in whether we're looking at Yin and Yang or whatever, chaos and order, is the reason why the Yi seems and the Spleen is so important, why it's in between every single one of these transitions is because it is transformational, alchemical, digesting, transitional energy. It's the only place that happens and the only place when you look up say integral theory of psychology, it doesn't matter where you look, it goes from we to I, we to I, and you need to be able to transition between them.

(19:18)

And with to-do lists, I've gone from we to an integration of I energy within the business focusing on individuals and individual happiness or efficiency or whatever it is, and just in my own life, individual children, so on and so forth. I was just looking at the to-do list we've got for our next four-month season and I've really just been doing the I. Everyone takes on their project and there's a general direction we're moving and I've just decided to shift it and make sure we start with here's the to-do list that unifies us all first because otherwise the weight is too heavy in the I energy. So we've got the we and it's the same with the family. So what am I focusing on that encompasses all of us. So let's just get the major directions or what's important or goals of the family and the business. And the business only has three big ones. Then from there it breaks out and everyone goes individually, like I'll take on this, I'll take this on.

(20:23)

It's a new weird transition because innately, we all knew the same thing but now it's just a new phase. So now we shift a little bit. So that's that capacity for the Spleen to move between we and I based on what stage of digestion that you're at. I just wanted to put that out there with the to-do list because some-

Stephanie Nosco:

And as you're talking, I'm thinking about that word that's overused, manifestation. It's such a cliche word, but as you're talking, I'm thinking about how you're bringing the Hun of these ideas down and they materialise a bit more into, okay, we are going to do this, so it's a little more dense and then now it's even to the details, getting really granular about it. Another thing, Lorie, my teacher says, , she said the Spleen is all about what matters. So if you think about matter, it's like okay, well what matters?

(21:19)

How can we bring our ideas into matter? And it does take that distillation of okay, this is what matters to us. This is where the direction we're going and now let's go down into attention to the individual level. I think that could be also in family life or business or whatever. It's not separate. This is a thing about the FIve Spirits it's that it's not separate from life. I had someone comment on from my post being like, "All these Spirits are so imaginal and how do you know that they're real?" I'm like, "You know they're real because they work through you every single day." Every time you follow through on something, that's your Yi showing up for you. It's not separate, it's very real. It's happening every day.

Mason:

It's so real. I mean you can start seeing the separation between reduction of science and say heart perception science where there's that, okay, maybe it is possible to see scientifically. They're not there yet, but it's going to be one of those like, oh, science is finally proving what Chinese medicine or any wisdom tradition ever knew. And it's like, well, of course these organs are perceiving and of course these organs are emanating something that's interdimensional that has a perception. And of course we can all perceive Yi and there will eventually be something that they will say and explain this is what it was. But for right now, if you can perceive it, perceive it, you can trust yourself. Maybe you can't trust that you're really skilled at it, at discerning of I can feel that Wood Hun and I can really feel the differentiation there between that Yi earth, but you can trust that you're on the right track because you're perceiving it.

(23:07)

This is the whole point of Chinese medicine. And that's why it wasn't useful to have this because it was too much self-empowerment as communism was rolling over China. So they've cut out that Spirit and they've homogenised where you can just think about it, you can bypass the Heart because it was just for whatever reason. But here that's what I always feel that Yi is the point going, is it landing or is it not landing? Your vision is amazing and it's real. I don't know whether it's a 12 month or a 10 year or a 50 year. At this point, we're going to have to look ourselves in the mirror or look ourselves right here between heaven and earth and go, "Is the rubber hitting or is it not hitting?" So I think people don't realise how nice, that's such a natural for me, I just realised that's such a nice place where boundaries are set and I've had to say to people in life or whatever and just be like, it's fine, I get this.

(24:01)

I don't need you to get it. This is the direction I'm going in now and I will give you as much as I need in order to just say, "Cool, I'm moving now because this doesn't serve anymore. And if the rubber's not hitting the road and if you don't get it, it's okay. I'm going to do my best to make this a graceful period, but you can't stop me from moving now in this direction or this direction." And if it's not a match anymore, then that's amazing, but you're not going to get any more from me because I'm not leaking anything else. And that's the boundary comes from. I think you nailed it in terms of the bond and boundary. That's where you see whether you're on the right track I guess with Hun and Shen like there-

Stephanie Nosco:

Definitely because the Hun and Shen are always telling you to readjust, right? Because that's another thing is you could just be doing , doing, doing, with your bite sized to-do lists and then not be informed by the upper spirits. So this is where it's always about balance. It's not like the Yi is the best Spirit, although I think it's the most important one. But it's like we could get stuck. Think of the Yi being the mundane in some ways it's like where the rubber hits the road. We can just live there in the middle world, but then we're not listening to the Heart. We're not listening to the virtue or the higher visions. And if we don't also spend time in the lower world of soul work and looking at our shadows, then we get that we're just kind of living an unconscious life. So it's about being informed by all of them and then balancing and certain seasons of our life.

(25:25)

Like you said, "Wow, I'm really in middle world right now." I find that mid-thirties. Yeah, I'm 100% middle world. Yeah, I'm working on my business, I'm working on this book project and it's one of the things also with this three world kind of thing that I found interesting. So in this whole Wu Shen system, there's some lineages that don't actually attribute Yi to be its own Spirit. It's like there's Shen and Hun, there's the upper and the lower, and the Yi is just not really there. It's not really considered a Spirit because when we die, it's the Shen and the Hun that goes back up to Heaven. That's what learn, right? Our Shen and Hun come down to earth to learn and then the Po and Zhi actually belong to the underworld. So they leave and go back into the Earth. But what happens to the Yi?

Mason:

I mean, I've got some ideas, but I assume you're rhetorical right now. I'll just shut up.

Stephanie Nosco:

The Yi stays on earth as the legacy of our actions. So it is what we've built here and it's as we're tilling the soil, it's that fruit, it's the footstep. The Yi leaves footprints. It's the only thing that will leave a footprint. So whether that's raising a child, that's the legacy or whether it's writing a book or whether it's starting a business, it's the legacy. So it matters and that's the thing, that's the question is what matters. And it can seem so overwhelming of singing the Heart's song, but it's a song that you sing every day and you show up. And that's why I can't divorce Yi from the concept of devotion. All of the practises that we're doing are devotional practises. What are you devoted to? I'm devoted to my family. I'm devoted to my business, I'm devoted to my meditation practise. But it takes that devotion to show up to leave that legacy of the Yi. So I think it is a real spirit, but it's a special spirit. It's the spirit of middle earth or middle world. The world of man.

Mason:

We can do some Lord of the Rings.

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah. Yeah. I just totally got swept up in my Legolas. Yeah, that's right.

Mason:

Yeah. I see the validity in both of those things because I feel like the establishment we can go woo woo back. I mean for those of you that don't like woo woo, what are you even doing here? No. Yeah, For those of you, I just really want to understand, this is where I'm at in terms of just finding my footing. I'm not saying this is exactly my belief or this is literally it. This is just how I relate to it. That established in the universe is something like there's the most cutting edge thing in exploring whatever this Yin yang universe is and whatever we're here to experience, we've got such an establishment. And that's why Hun and Shen it's there because it's so established and likewise in the earth and those shadow lower dimensional aspects are so established and everything has been explored in all of those dimensions.

(28:22)

Then the embryo and the relationship between the Yang and the Yin is so cutting edge with our son and perhaps other places, it's the experience. I'm not saying us we're necessarily special. I think we are and aren't at the same time. Maybe it's happening in other places, but my personal experience, valid or not, is that this is cutting edge right now. So there's an emergence of the next exploration of areas of this universe which really haven't been explored.

(28:49)

Perhaps a graduation or something. And you go back to what we call the real old, the yogic and Taoist aspect and friends who I have who are in that seer's space. The crossover is incredible around where this is like a crescendo, whether there's been many and there will be many, but that Yi is its representative of the new and then makes sense why it's not acknowledged because it's in a way it's not established. That's why it is so intimidating and is I feel as well is the most important because that unity of the chaos or the love and then the shadow and the Yin and all that, it's like, oh, it's uncharted.

Stephanie Nosco:

It is. And it's the choice point, I think. We talk about, well, is there free will? If there was free will, That's a huge conversation in itself. Free will or not free will. But if there was free will, it would be the Yi at the centre. It's the choice point. It's like, okay, I see the vision, I see the virtue, I see everything in this upper world and I see the lower world and I'm coming up against it. So what do I choose to do about it now? Right? Yeah. So to relate it, and I don't like to cross systems too much, but if you were to relate it to the chakra system, it would be that Manipura chakra, like okay, what I'm going to do about it? Which is interesting because that chakra is very much related to that Fire element. So there is this relationship between Earth and Fire here. I think that's really important is that again, that Heart symbol, it makes up the spirit of the Yi.

Mason:

Yeah, I mean, up until the Yi is so logical in the most beautiful way, but just because it's logical in the sense that it's taking that which it perceives in say like that Heart realm and where there is smoke, there's fire that say we do have free will and we don't. So why is there such importance on dichotomy and Yin/Yang and both things existing at the same time in every single tradition? And for me that's like it's a major practise. And why that Scott Fitzgerald quote of being able to hold two opposing ideas at the same time and still function is the most important and then just I guess one of my major devotion. The aspect where because I don't want to oppose that there is destiny and I don't want to oppose that there is no destiny.

(31:23)

I want to hold the smoke, there's fire, there's both destiny and there isn't. I probably am a little bit under marinated where I'm at now, so I won't share anything more on what I'm feeling there. But that is Yi more than anything because the rubber hits the road there and you can go paint out little... You chisel out little aspects of the dimension that we're in that we just couldn't see because the light that animates this dimension that we're emerging into doesn't exist in those upper realms and doesn't exist in the lower realms. And that's why we are here doing this. It's new.

Stephanie Nosco:

Right. It exists in the coming together of the two and then you have the dance of the world of man, I don't know why they call it world of man but middle. That's why I said middle world because it's in the middle. It's the pivot point. Yeah.

Mason:

Yeah. I mean you go beyond the words and go to the idea that you can feel the idea and the words don't really even matter where they can get a rebrand as long as you don't leave the source idea. That's what I think the whole idea behind the baby out with the bath water, we just go, yeah, look, that's the word that emerged based culturally. As long as we understand the source concept and you can get a sense and feel, then you can see an eminence of the words that match where we're at. But you can't go past the Heart perception of what we're talking about, which is what I think happens a lot. People are like, "Oh, man." Or even the same for men, like, "Oh, feminism," it's just quick cut it. It's like, no, no, no, no. You just feel the essence first. Let the words unite us a little bit more, but don't cut that idea.

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah. Totally. Totally. The world of humans. But yeah, I mean it's even what beings, but I mean I think there is... Actually, no, I think it is humans because I was actually thinking about this yesterday. This could be strange, but the point of a thousand meetings is actually at the crown of the head. And we are the only mammal that is bipedal and there's this sense of the crown of the head. This is where the Spirit comes in at the crown of the head is it's like our head is actually facing the Heavens, this upper world, the upper dantian and then we have our feet on the ground. There's this sense that it's almost like we're facing the Heavens. The head is facing the heavens, the feet are at the Earth and it's almost like that we're reaching towards something.

(33:49)

I just feel like this bipedal, whether you can look at the evolution of humanity and from sure a scientific way, but, I just wonder if it's this frontal brain capacity that we have and yet we're still in this animal body. So we're holding both things. Then when it comes to also we're talking about centre and locations of the body. We have these upper dantian that's closest to the Heavens, closest to Shen and Hun, our pelvis, closest to the legs, closest to the Earth. But the Yi is right in this centre point. When we're talking about Stomach or the Spleen, we're also talking about the pancreas and the Stomach and all of the digestive processes.

(34:30)

And if you look at the sinew channels and the meridians, the Stomach, Spleen, meridians run right through the centre diaphragm. It's right at the centre. So as we're talking, I'm segueing into another tip because I have tips, but I guess another tip I have for working with the Yi is to really work with the centre of your body, physically breathing deeply. You know how many people have tension in the diaphragm? That trampoline muscle under the ribs there's so much tension there. Honestly, just mobilising the diaphragm I find personally has been really helpful for Spleen energy.

Mason:

Do you do much self-massage or anything like that?

Stephanie Nosco:

Oh yeah. Self-massage is great also. Yeah, self-massage is great. Just physically connecting to your centre.

Mason:

Yeah, I mean I would agree in terms of the ultimate tip, and it's the most mundane. It's funny you were saying it is mundane. It's the most boring, mundane thing. It's just like that's the chop wood carry water part. It's this-

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah, it's right a to-do list, breathe deeply in your abdomen. I sound like this is really boring, but-

Mason:

I wanted fandangle practises that are so connected, it's like, no, no, they're all there and relevant. This is the movement practise from the centre.

Stephanie Nosco:

From the centre. Yeah.

Mason:

A bajillion times been reminded whether you're lifting weights or doing callisthenics or yoga or whatever, dynamic movement, playing tennis, bringing yourself back to your centre. And it's that centre, the place that whether it's the hara in Japanese, or whether it's there are lower dantians, maybe that's more of a physical, the Lower Jiao being that you can feel that physical place where the qua bridge between your lower dimensions and your upper dimensions physically balancing then, but that middle jiao really coming back to that middle jiao and connecting of that different type of centeredness. And just reminding yourself back here again, back here again, come back again, come back again.

Stephanie Nosco:

And honestly what I'm talking about with the bipedal thing, I think I've been thinking about it so much because I've been standing in my meditation and there's something about standing in meditation where I can really get a sense that there's Heaven above, there's Earth below and I'm in the centre. There's just something about it.

Mason:

Do you know much of Mantak Chia's work?

Stephanie Nosco:

I do know some of it, yeah. I haven't studied it extensively.

Mason:

Tahnee talks about a lot. He talks about the energetic significance of going from the animal kingdom to being the organ's been drooping down to us going up and just how energetically we're so much more related to trees in the way that we're operating in the roles that we're playing. But the nice thing about Taoism is you can hold this, we're not special, whatever, we're all kind of this and that. But then when you look, as you said, there's the world of humans, it is. That's the significance of what the role that we're playing here is understated in many it is places.

Stephanie Nosco:

It is. So I would say it's the world of human, to tie up that last point that I started before I went on a tangent.

Mason:

Yeah, I love it mean the self-massage thing had me thinking about Mantak a lot. So I just thought happy for him bringing back Chi Nei Tsang so heavily. Yeah, I think maybe it's getting there, but for everyone, whether it's sometimes it's difficult to go and practise on yourself. I'm definitely not in a phase of life where I feel at capacity to have every... I'm really drawn to work with more practitioners at the moment rather than other times where I'm like no one gets to come near me. So just often, if you can find someone you can reach out to Tao Garden and see their list of, is there anyone who's practising who's learned within the tradition of the Tao or the mayan who can help you with bringing some physical movement to those organ systems. It's so often it's like a pivot point.

Stephanie Nosco:

And then one thing too with the diaphragm, I'm obsessed with the diaphragm right now because what I notice when I work with people is the amount of tension that we store and emotional memories that we store in the organs. What I find is that it's easier to stay in the Upper Jiao, in that Shen Hun, but the diaphragm is like we were talking about the rubber hitting the road. I think of the diaphragm as that floor that you actually hit down onto. And it's much easier to stay in these upper dimensions above the diaphragm and to actually start to breathe deeply. It might be somewhere on my Instagram, but I have this diaphragm release that I teach people. And the moment that we start to work there, that's when the movement starts there. Number one, you're forced to feel into your body, wow, I'm a human being and this is difficult.

(39:25)

But there's something that starts to open up I think in the Yi when we really work with this diaphragmatic breath. And that's something literally that everyone can do is start to mobilise the diaphragm and start to feel what you feel as a human. It's kind of crappy, but I really think of the diaphragm as the floor. It's like the Earth of our body. And if we can start to go below that, then we can start to work with the lower Spirits. Because you're going to have to work with the lower spirits if you're working with the Yi, we don't want to go there. And especially if you had a lot of trauma, you don't want to go there. But that's the first step really with starting to... I ran this course called Descending the Mountain, so you start at the peak of the mountain, then you come down and you come to the diaphragm, and then once you can mobilise that and start to get the Spleen Qi moving, then you can start to descend into the realms of the Po and Zhi.

Mason:

Hell yeah. And it's amazing how many times that my little voice pops up just to advocate, but I've been there for so many years and then really feeling. And I know there's those of you that are really down stuck in the Earth as well, and it's intimidating to go into that vision.

Stephanie Nosco:

Right. But you're gathering the resources from the Shen. That's the thing is you're taking the light of the Shen, the compassion from the Hun, you're grounding it in the Yi and then you're bringing it down and illuminating. You're bringing the light down and illuminating these lower realms. So it's not like you're going without resource and you're not also going there when you're not ready to go there.

Mason:

As is our nature, we just had a lot of fun dancing around in the... Well, I guess it's actually, it's all been feeling pretty grounded. I actually feel really great about that. But what I'm thinking is just those tips. I'm at a point where I'm like, yes, give me, give me, give me as many little tips that I can use to really ground that Spleen energy.

Stephanie Nosco:

For sure. Yeah, I have more. So yeah, so just to review, the first is the to-do lists. And so I just want to circle back to one more topic about the to-do list and why this is important is because if there is no follow through. This is the thing. If you say you're going to do something and you don't do it, and how many times have you like, "Oh yeah, I got to do that, I got to do that, I got to do it, and there's no follow.." every time you do that is creating a little chink in your Yi. So it's better to just say that you're not going to do it than to say you're going to do it and not do it.

(41:52)

So that's again the importance with the follow through is bite-sized tasks. And because if we don't do that, it creates this rumination, and that rumination knotting the Qi and causing again that excess thinking and that dampness in the Spleen and the follow through helps with the worry. There's actually nothing you can do. This is the thing. There's nothing actually you can do about the worrying. Then it's like, okay, are my fears actually rational? And then doing a little cognitive behavioural therapy on yourself, even writing down your thoughts like, I'm having this thought and it's really pervasive writing it down and examining what kind of thoughts are you consuming.

Mason:

And I know everyone probably wants me to just shut up because Steph's got all the goods. But in terms of the relevance, there's something I really dropped into yesterday. We have our daily standup with quite a few people in quite and few roles. And we call it our chop wood carry water. So it's five to 10 minutes at 9:00 AM and we have our three things that have the charge around things that we need to do. And one of the questions that has been prompting it just because I've just put things in place just because something is better than nothing, I'd just be like, "How did you go yesterday?" And I've been feeling like, oh, when I hear people like, "Oh, I didn't do it, kind of did do it." I'm like... The kind of thought that it's bringing through and reflection, it's better than nothing.

(43:15)

It's bringing a capacity to go, did I do it? Did I follow through with integrity or did I not? But it's just not landing. And yesterday I was just like, "I know it's a simple shift guys." But just going, what'd you learn from yesterday? Because one way or another you are reflecting on, did I do it? Did I not do it? But are you over ambitious? Were you not specific enough? What did you learn? For me, it's such a massive shift and it floods me with a different way of thinking and then using my intellect to manoeuvre through my manifestation journey.

Stephanie Nosco:

And it's more compassionate too. And that's the thing as we want to bring Hun, we're not forgetting about the other Spirits. We're going to bring compassion to the fact that I didn't do it or whatever. But let's write a more detailed, maybe my to-dos actually need to be smaller. Maybe I need to take smaller bites.

Mason:

Yeah. We say that all the time.

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah. Smaller bites. For me, it's my taxes. If I have this big elaborate goal of getting it all done, it's not going to happen. It's like five minutes, I'm going to work five minutes a day or whatever it is. So anyway, that's just coming back to-do list. And then after the to-do list, I actually wanted to talk about a concept called nutriments. Have you heard of that before? Thich Nhat Hanh talks about it in some of his work. Okay. So when you think about Stomach and Spleen, it's the digestion process, but food is going to affect the Spleen a lot. So we can't also divorce our minds. So when you think about food, food and supplements, things like sweet foods and dairy and gluten, these are all going to really affect the Spleen a lot. So just being mindful of your food.

(44:53)

So there's the edible food, but then there's the other things that we're consuming and we live in a consumeristic culture, which is just so interesting that there's so much Spleen imbalance culturally in our... I don't even want to say in the West because now it's more of our modernity things in the modern culture, we live in a consumeristic culture. So things like what are you consuming as far as sense impressions. So how much media are you consuming? That's going to overwhelm the Spleen. Even when you walk in your room, if you walk in your house and there's a lot of clutter, that's a sense impression that is actually impacting your Spleen. Maybe not on a conscious level, but if you look at feng shui, it's like you walk in and having your room clear of clutter, that's going to help the Spleen a lot. It's a very simple thing.

(45:42)

So setting boundaries on media, even what you're watching on TV, if you do watch TV, it's like that's impacting the Spleen. And I'll give an example, okay, you binge-watch Harry Potter, what are you going to be thinking about for the next three days? It's like, oh, Hermione and Ron. Ron's voice in your head because it affects the consciousness. It's going to affect the Yi. And it's not to say that we don't want to watch TV or we don't want to go on media, it's just how much am I consuming? And when you think about my teacher, Sarah, always says when you eat, go two-thirds full, when you eat, because that gives space for the food to move around and digest. And so similarly in our life, we don't want to spend from sun up to sun down consuming because if we do, there's no space to integrate and digest that and have that intention really ground in an action.

Mason:

That's probably really indicative of that first part of the day. I mean, at the moment, I'm not probably practising , I'm not preaching, but I'm not practising is just don't even touch your phone till 8:00 AM.

Stephanie Nosco:

It's that consuming. So just having that in your back of mind, what am I consuming? This is just how much am I consuming.

Mason:

I mean something that really you probably talk about elsewhere, but I think nothing Jost was saying and he's like, "You have to fill yourself with the cosmic between that three to five or it's a little bit later." Fill yourself intentionally with the Lung cosmic energy first so that you don't get filled with social media or work.

Stephanie Nosco:

That's right. That's right. And that also helps with intentionality like it. And then the Yi is again about intention, so things like getting up and setting an intention for your day. And for me, I've started mantra practise. So for me, singing is also really the Heart song. Literally singing in the morning, doing something where you're saYing it out loud like today, whether you have a mantra that you sing or whether it's just a little thing that you have stick on your mirror is setting that intention and having that spaciousness to set the tone of your day would be also a really great tip. But then if you can't manage that, just be aware, what am I consuming throughout my day? And this includes, so we have edible food, sense impressions, and then the next one of Thich Nhat Hanh's nutriments is volition. So volition meaning what sort of intentions are you consuming internally?

(48:08)

And this is all about being aware, mindfulness of your thoughts, becoming aware of what you're thinking and what thoughts that you're consuming. Am I believing that to be true? So it's sometimes stopping you like, "Wow, I'm really worried right now. What's going on?" Sometimes writing down your thoughts are really great because you can see how ridiculous they are. Wow, I've been consuming that thought all day long and it's causing unnecessary strife in my life. That's a waste of energy.

(48:35)

So this is volition. And then consciousness, we're also consuming consciousness. So collective consciousness, like what's in the collective field and then this individual consciousness that we're consuming. So that would be maybe the most subtle level. So these layers of nutriments are going to be affecting the Spleen physically in what we're eating, but then also what we're consuming on a level of consciousness. Having that space decluttering, not consuming, go on a fast. Fasting is good for the Spleen. I mean, especially on a spiritual level. That's why we go on retreat is we fast for a little bit and then we can say, "Okay, what am I actually going to bring back onto my plate?"

Mason:

It never really pops up as the timing. Everyone goes to fasting in Spring, and I always couldn't think of anything worse when I'm at Spring than fasting personally or a full fast like a stripped back maybe. But it feels like a really great season to have a really good fast yeah.

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah. I don't know really. I'm not a TCM doc, so I'd be curious about that because it is a time of year where we do feel so full. So maybe it would be good to take something off your plate figuratively and literally.

Mason:

Well, there's appropriate decluttering, which is the decluttering allows you to just have some breathing room, which sets you up for that Metal season, which is-

Stephanie Nosco:

That's right. Because Metal is all about, okay, preciousness, what are we going to store? So it's that decluttering of even the hanging fruit or the fruit that's been ripe, but then it's overripe and it's rotting. Get rid of it, don't consume that.

Mason:

That branch hasn't been producing the best fruit, it can go.

Stephanie Nosco:

Right. Yeah.

Mason:

No, we've always had that branch. Is it? Is it though? Let's really get in and have some robust chat about why is that branch the best? Is it diminishing? What's actually valuable to everybody? And it's just got some sentimentality and we need to just ceremoniously go through and give it a nice little chop while just giving it the honouring it needs.

Stephanie Nosco:

And that's the discernment from the Fire element too, that illumination from the Shen that's going to be discerning. Should I be consuming this right now? Yes, no. Do you see the relationship between Heart and Spleen? It's so close.

Mason:

I love it.

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah, so I think those are my main tips when working with the Spleen, realistic goals, to-do lists, consumption.

Mason:

I mean, it's-

Stephanie Nosco:

One more thing I want to say about consumption because I'm a obsessed with learning and courses, so this is another thing is the consuming knowledge. Taking a lot in as far as school or courses, it's great to take courses, but you definitely need time to integrate. It's not always about more, more, more, more, more. So if you are a student, just be mindful that your Spleen is going to be naturally off because there is so much consumption and especially in mastery education that's taught in the West, this whole thing of just consuming a bunch of information and then regurgitating on the page and not actually integrating anything, terrible for the Spleen. But if you are learning, take a little bit, go for a walk, let it digest, and then it'll be more integrated in your system.

Mason:

Amazing. Yeah, that one there are certain people who really are a Spleen constitution and you can see that being a major practise for them in the sense of-

Stephanie Nosco:

Oh, I have one more thing. Sorry. I keep thinking of things. So another thing with Earth element constitution people, if you have Earth element constitution, there's this quality of being really nurturing and wanting to take care of everything else and everyone else by yourself. They call it excess sympathy, having sympathy for other people and just almost sacrificing your wellbeing and your nourishment for another. The Earth element is also the archetype of the mother. So you often see this in new moms who are like, oh my gosh, I'm giving, giving, giving and not getting back. So my teacher, Lorie, says no as a full sentence. You don't have to justify why you're saying no to something to just really set. Again, coming back to a boundary setting and saying no is also a really good Spleen practise and not saying no and here's all the thoughts that I'm going to spin off about why.

Mason:

Yeah, it can be very awkward. It's funny because every, there's a dark side to every organ system and that one is particularly vindictive and I know I've experienced it before when I don't have a healthy flow and you go into excessive I'm compassionate and I'm this and that. It can either really burn the individual and you see it far too often, the sacrificing energy, and it can get super manipulative, like, "How dare you? I'm caring for you here." And it gets into that absolute chronic manipulation and feeling like that you're acting virtuous and for the best of that person with it being completely out of it.

(53:55)

You got to watch that, don't you? The other one I just really wanted to say is about sugar. Because I know we can sit in the excess sugar, but I watched so many people focus on sugar where there should be, as far as I see it, zero charge around sugar. The sugar is incredible. It can be toxic in excess, it could be toxic in excess in certain forms, so on and so forth. If you've got charge around sugar, you need to look at something else because sugar is amazing and incredible and the best medicine for some things, Spleen, physiologically, biochemically the Liver as well. And of course everything can be excessively misunderstood and used.

Stephanie Nosco:

Of course. I mean, even if you think about the foods, at least in North America that we grow, corn, sweet potato, these things are all sweet. We eat them at that time. So there is this sense of eating sweet foods isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's all about bringing it into harmony. So as soon as we sway into that polarity of this food is good, that food is bad, I think we're in trouble.

Mason:

I think it's good to short term burst or little periods when you're out of control in a sense. You haven't got the capacity to deal with what's going on internally within that organ system or psychologically. And I'm going to go into a period of the rule because it's the easiest for now. But then the capacity to integrate whatever you needed to take responsibility and move beyond that consciousness and approach. I feel like that's the Spleen transitioning. And even though there's certain things I need to use discipline and rules in my life to not do right now, I'm not staying there. I've got my north star knowing that at some point there will be an emergence where I'll naturally be regulated around that substance or food or workload or whatever it is. It will emerge. I just need to have faith and trust in myself so that it'll happen.

Stephanie Nosco:

That's right. And I think it's about creating a healthy relationship with food. And I think a healthy relationship with food is also a healthy relationship with the Earth element and that listening into the body and what it needs at the time.

Mason:

I love it. And looking at what's on. That practise of going what's on in my area, that is the most grounding. And if you watch yourself, you're like, "No, screw it. I'm just going to go back to eating just oats." It's like, yeah, but what are you putting on the oat? Start getting excited about poaching pears in the next few months or enjoy the last of the berries. Let's go to the last of the berries. What's on, don't just look at what's homogenous and convenient. That is a Spleen practise I find really connecting.

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Yeah, even just really getting excited about your food, touching it and saying blessings for it too. These are all little things that we can do for the Spleen that I think is helpful.

Mason:

I love it. Thank you so much for coming on and bringing such full power force. You really don't just go beep beep beep, here are other points on the Spleen. I love it. I love watching you work and you teach. I always learn so much when I'm talking to you. I'm loving these chats. This transition feels fun. I feel like tuning into you now is really helping me in terms of tying off a big Spleen phase and moving into a Metal one for business and life. Selfishly, it's been really amazing for me. So thank you. And I'm really looking for-

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for having me. I always get so pumped up about talking with you. And can I say one more thing about the Yi that I totally forgot to say? To end on the Heart song and to think about the Yi being really about intention, intentionality, the word intention, I don't know if you practise yoga nidra, the sankalpa. So sankalpa means truth vow, and I think about the Heart holding the truth and the Yi is what vows to that. And I just love that. So to just end with that is to really stay close to the vow of your Heart and knowing that every small little step of your to-do list, whether it's really mundane, is in service of that truth vow. So that's just what I wanted to leave you with because I had it written down and I forgot to say it and I thought it needed to be said.

Mason:

Thank you so much. Just blessings to you.

Stephanie Nosco:

Yeah, thanks. You too.

Mason:

I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure there's some new people here. I think we started with Hun. I think we've started with-

Stephanie Nosco:

We started with Hun.

Mason:

I'm sorry, with Liver.

Stephanie Nosco:

With Liver.

Mason:

We're actually getting to that point where, for those of you in the Northern Hemisphere, it's a really great time for you to go and look up Stephanie Nosco:, Hun or Liver, and you'll find that podcast and you can start entering into that cycle. You'll have the complete cycle so you can listen at those key times.

Stephanie Nosco:

That's a great point. I got to listen to that. What did I say back then?

Mason:

The crazy thing about it is people are like great. So now you've done that. Once you've done a full cycle, we can just put a full stop on it. I'm like, no, no, no. Every single year I want to be having these chats.

Stephanie Nosco:

Seriously, they're so good. And they remind you of the information that's already been digested. And then the more we talk about it, the more we digest it again. It's helpful.

Mason:

There we go. And I mean more and more like the tips and the basic things there we go through and I'm like, yeah, I needed that in that form. And then you go around and have another conversation in a year or two years or five years and the dimension of those tips have opened up a little bit more. You've got space to go and explore one on a whole and see that's why we've shaped wisdom, traditions like that, for example.

Stephanie Nosco:

Right. Yeah.

Mason:

Oh, yeah. All right. I'm going to let you go because it's that time-

Stephanie Nosco:

Sounds good. Great chatting.

Mason:

Ugh. Got to do adult things and make the rubber hit the road. Ugh. Got to go to the bank.

Stephanie Nosco:

Agreed.

Mason:

That's the spirit. That's the Yi Spirit coming out.

Stephanie Nosco:

That's the Yi spirit.

Mason:

All right. Lots of love, everyone. You know what to do. Go to the Instagram website, get up and get on that newsletter. Yeah.

Stephanie Nosco:

Cool. See you, Mason.

Mason:

Bye.