Motherhood, Birth, and Embodying Your Truth with Jinti Fell (EP#129)

Tahnee: (00:00)

Hi, everybody. I'm here today with Jinti Fell. I'm really excited to have her on the podcast. She's been a friend of SuperFeast and me for a while now, and she's just such an inspiring and interesting person. I wanted to bring Jinti on today because I feel like she really embodies a lot of the things that we teach and speak about at SuperFeast, which is sovereignty and really choosing to live a life aligned with your values and your own evolving truth, whatever that may be. So welcome, Jinti. Thanks so much for taking the time.

 

Jinti Fell: (00:31)

Oh, thank you for having me. I've been inspired by so many episodes on this podcast, so it's an honour to be here talking with you.

 

Tahnee: (00:40)

So exciting. No, hopefully we can inspire some people today with your beautiful wisdom. I wanted to kind of jump right in, because I know that you're pregnant right now. Congratulations. That's baby number three for you guys.

 

Jinti Fell: (00:53)

Yes.

 

Tahnee: (00:54)

Yeah, and how's that been going, having now two little ones to attend as well as your third pregnancy?

 

Jinti Fell: (01:01)

I often look back and sort of laugh at my first pregnancy thinking about how little I really had to do. I didn't care for anyone else necessarily bar me. And then the third pregnancy chasing my kids around constantly. It's different, but it's been really nice as well. It's been very cruisy, and I'm starting to sort of sink into that airy pregnancy spaces birth approaches, but yeah, it's actually been a really nice journey so far.

 

Tahnee: (01:39)

Yeah, I think you always seem, I mean, again, it's through the lens of social media, but you seem to really have a great knack for knowing what you need and prioritising that even within like a busy mommy life. Is that something you think you've worked hard for or is that something that's always been there for you, that ability to tune in to what you really need to stay centred?

 

Jinti Fell: (02:00)

Hmm, I feel like that is actually my priority intentionally this pregnancy particular. I don't feel I was necessarily blacked out as much in my first pregnancy. It's been quite different experiences. What really started off for me prioritising just honouring what I really need would be probably having a pregnancy completely outside of the medical system and feeling that I need to take a 100% responsibility for my care And whatever that needs to look like. And it's been so empowering this pregnancy, because I am not second guessing things. I'm not questioning, am I doing the right thing? I've been there. I've experienced that. I know what I want. And this pregnancy has been about just really honouring that, that second guessing it and yeah, just trusting myself. So yeah, It's definitely something I focus on doing intentionally.

 

Tahnee: (03:17)

Because I mean, I've followed your journey because your daughter, your first daughter was obviously ... Did you have a home birth with her, or no?

 

Jinti Fell: (03:27)

No.

 

Tahnee: (03:27)

Do you mind taking us on that journey? Because I don't know if you know of Jane Hardwicke Collings, but I've done a bit of work with her and she always shares how each birth was what she needed to be pushed onto the next stage of her path. And she went from sort of a casserian hospital birth to an ecstatic home birth on her third birth. And I think there's something really beautiful in that that she kind of used her births as her kind of own personal evolutionary journey. And I wonder if that's, I kind of get the sense that that's similar for you, but I don't want to put words in your mouth.

 

Jinti Fell: (04:01)

I really admire her work and I can so relate to that. My first, so we'll go back to my first pregnancy and birth of my daughter was in a birthing suite and it wasn't a typical pregnancy. So I was within the medical system and the birthing suite's really, I see now just an extension of the hospital, but I travelled for my entire pregnancy so I didn't have ongoing prenatal care, like the typical care within the system. I was backpacking and we were on a sort of an around the world trip and I was really fearful about so many things. It wasn't a planned pregnancy, so I spent the first few months really resisting and just in complete non-acceptance of what was going on, until I started to feel her moving inside of me. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, there's a baby in me."

 

Jinti Fell: (05:15)

And I started really feeling like bonding with her and just, I was like, "Whoa, she's feeling all of this because I can't hide anything from her. She is inside of me." And so that shifted a lot. I put so much energy into thinking about what I should be doing. Even when we decided to continue our travels, I was like, "Am I allowed to do that? Can I travel pregnant? Is this so irresponsible? What are people going to think of this?" I had all this fear about returning to Australia, which I did when I was about 30 weeks pregnant and thinking, "Okay, then I have to find a midwife, and what are they going to think about me?" So that was something I really had to work through. I'm like, "Why am I trying to please everyone else so much?"

 

Jinti Fell: (06:15)

And that sort of carried on after birth as well. It wasn't like, well it's interesting because giving birth, I did give birth, like I said, in the birthing suite, but we were there for about 20 minutes before she was born. It was just Chris and I in our apartment. And it was without a doubt the most amazing experience of my life. It completely changed us. It just awoke something in me. I could just feel how strong I was. And for Chris and I had to go through that together in our relationship at that time, it was just the love that we felt for each other and him being there for me like that. And then at the end of it all having our daughter, it was just like, "Whoa, this is everything." And so I can really agree with what Jane was saying about how her experiences were exactly what she needed. I needed to be awoken to the strong woman that I am, where before I almost was still a child, still my mother's child in lots of ways.

 

Tahnee: (07:36)

I got  total goosebumps when you're talking about that. I just, I think the love that's possible when you are supported by your partner and then that healthy birth. And it's just a really, really empowering experience. And I mean, how did that translate for you guys, the second pregnancy? Because you had the conscious conception with your son and I know you chose to, I mean, did you continue to have some obstetric care or midwifery care or did you go completely wild pregnancy after that, or?

 

Jinti Fell: (08:15)

Yeah, I'll start with after giving birth to my daughter because we realised, well, I realised the same day that I birthed her, we were just waiting to be allowed to be discharged, really just looking. I'm not someone that ever, I'm not regularly going to see a doctor at this stage. I'd had not many health complications in my life leading up to giving birth. It was not an environment I was at all familiar with. Chris at the time was in his fourth year of studying [inaudible 00:08:54]. So we were very much like did not want to be there. So as soon as we could, we got home and was just like, "Okay, yes." And I remember looking at Chris and thinking, "We didn't need anyone, that was all me and his support, and everything else was completely unnecessary." And in fact it hindered, it took away from our experience.

 

Jinti Fell: (09:25)

And I remember looking at him and being like, it just started me thinking of like, "I don't want them there." I didn't want them there. And next time I wonder what that would look like if it was just us, could we just stay home and give birth? And so it really started then, but I also had just become a mother. And so the thought of having another child was not, I was like, "Well, we're just having one kid now." But then yeah, a couple of years later, it took about two years for my bleed to return. And so I started, like when my cycle began again, I sort of instantly was like, "Okay, I'm thinking about our next baby and feeling like he was ready."

 

Jinti Fell: (10:20)

And not that I needed to conceive that month or anything, but just in my mind I was like, "Okay, I'm really starting to prepare to bring in our next child and what do we want that to look like." With his conception, I don't know if you want me to go into that, but you asked about if I received any care, I had sort of a wild pregnancy? And yeah, with him it was completely outside care and support. No obstetricians, I didn't have a midwife or doula. Yeah, nothing.

 

Tahnee: (10:59)

And how, I mean, as a couple and a family, how do you feel that sort of changed your experience compared to your first pregnancy and birth? Was it more kind of intuitive or more connected, or?

 

Jinti Fell: (11:14)

It was, but it was also a lot of questioning and second guessing. And as a parent or as a mother, no one cares more than you care. And it was also interesting navigating it whilst we also shared our lives online. I found that quite difficult. I would say that I knew in my heart what I was doing was right. And I felt extremely, I really felt I knew how he wanted to be born, but I would second guess my own feelings. I suppose like, "Can I just trust that and go with that, or is that just crazy?"

 

Jinti Fell: (12:09)

So I did also towards the end, which I think stemmed from my first pregnancy where the day I turned 40 weeks, my midwife started speaking to me about what would happen if my labour didn't begin. And my water's leaked for about 12 hours before I felt any sort of contractions or surges. And so there was already this timeframe, the clock was ticking. I had to do things, have things happen within certain timeframes. And that stressed me out more than anything in my whole pregnancy, just having to meet their requirements. And so it took away from me just trusting and honouring that everything was unfolding as it needed to. And so I really think I took that into my next pregnancy. And one of my biggest fears was, what if labour doesn't start? What if I just don't go into labour? And I'm seeing all of these women around me getting induced and it's just so normal to have the stretch and sweep and just even eating hot foods and curries. And I don't know all of the things-

 

Tahnee: (13:24)

Upstairs.

 

Jinti Fell: (13:25)

Here I am sort of 41 weeks looking at Chris being like, "Am I going to, do women go into labour naturally?" And he was like, "Look, you're not going to be pregnant forever. Just chill." But there were definitely things that I carried through in my second pregnancy, but the most amazing empowering thing for me was I had to take 100% responsibility. And that is terrifying a lot of the time, because you love, you have so much love and all you want is the best outcomes and you have to own it, like every decision and not palm it off to, "Oh I thought I had two, or they said to do this or that," it's all up to you. And it's very confronting sometimes. But at the end of it all, the trust I walked away from in myself, knowing that I could really trust my intuition, especially if I got quiet and just let things settle and navigated my fears.

 

Jinti Fell: (14:38)

I was like, "Whoa, this is really empowering." And I was not someone that was, I was never like I'm having a wild pregnancy, which means I will never seek help if I needed it or anything like that. I just went day to day. And if I needed anything, I would seek it. And if I didn't, I wouldn't. So I felt really supported. I know a lot of people call it unassisted birth. But it felt, it didn't feel unassisted. I felt just so supported and loved throughout that whole journey that I just felt I had everything I needed.

 

Tahnee: (15:27)

I mean, when you speak about fear, what is your relationship to that and how you spoke about getting quiet? Is it through meditation or is there a practise you do, or do you just allow fear and work within that sort of, I think a lot of women I spoke to, whatever their pregnancy choices, fear is such a common topic. And I think it's really important to voice what you're afraid of. But I wonder about your own inner journey with that, how you work with fear?

 

Jinti Fell: (15:57)

I really try to accept fear as a completely normal emotion, like creativity or sexual energy or joy. It's a feeling that I try to express and not hold in my body. So even just letting it be what it needs to be play out, closing my eyes and locating where I have the fear and moving through it with either vocalising it or with movement or speaking it out really helps me. Yeah, just putting a voice to it. And sometimes that would look like in pregnancy me doing some research like, "Well, what would happen if I felt I was bleeding too much after birth? What would I specifically do?" And then being like, "Okay, there's answers here. And I know that I could deal with that situation however I'd need to." But that's not happening right now. So what's happening right now, I'm really just bringing myself back to reality because I think a lot of my fears and everyone's fears are when we just leave our thoughts unchecked, and we just need to sort of come back to ourselves.

 

Jinti Fell: (17:20)

And I also trust that if something genuinely wrong, I know, I would know, and I would deal with that, however, best I could. But yeah, that was me. It's funny actually, because well it's not really funny, but I really didn't have fears. And I started having fears about not having fears. I'm like, "Should I be more? Should I?" Yeah, if that answers your question.

 

Tahnee: (17:58)

And I relate to that, because I chose a home birth, my first daughter, and I remember being so relaxed about it and people going, "Well, aren't you terrified of this? And aren't you terrified about that?" And I was like, oh gosh, no. That's not even in my reality. And then I was like, "Okay, well, same thing, I'll do some research on it, okay."

 

Jinti Fell: (18:19)

I agree. You just made the most important point, because so often our fears are genuinely not ours, they're just coming at us from other people. And that was my experience. If I was just left alone I'll be like, "Cool, I'm just going give birth now." But there's projected fears and it's so important for me. I know in my pregnancy right now, there's a lot going on. There's so much happening in the world. We're in lockdown right now. And it's really easy to get caught up in all of that sort of stuff. But yeah, just knowing when to step back and for me as well, being in nature or just connecting in some way with the elements or the sunshine, or just going down for a walk is a really great way for me to dissolve fears as well as, just returning to nature. I think it's super potent when you're also growing a baby, because it's just this primal energy.

 

Tahnee: (19:32)

Yeah, it's such a, I was not sure if I was going to share this, but I think I'm just going to. We're six weeks pregnant at the moment, yay. So you're one of the first people to know. Obviously our family and friends know, but yeah. And I was reflecting on this the other day, how it's so natural to conceive and the whole, I'm not doing anything conscious, it's just growing inside of me. And I think it's this funny thing that we have to try and put this mind control on top of what is such a like you said, a primal and kind of, it's a very non-controlled situation. It's just happening and you can't, if you just get out of the way, and anyway, it's something that I reflect on a lot and I reflected on a lot with Aiya and I relate really heavily to what you said about that kind of the midwives offering just sort of an imposition in a way.

 

Tahnee: (20:28)

And I felt a lot of shame about feeling that with Aiya. Because I was grateful for the support and it was my first birth and I made a really conscious choice to give birth that way because I hadn't done it before and I wanted their experience around me. But yeah, there's this part of me that was also like, "Please just go away and leave me to this. I know what I'm doing." And the undermining of your, I would say, "No, no, I can't, I don't want to do that." And they'd be like, "No, no, you need to do this." It was like, "I don't want to." And it's like, and they don't trust your instincts. And I think if you've spent time, and I'm like you, I have a lot of self-doubt around what I know.

 

Tahnee: (21:07)

And I actually think it's healthy in a way, because it forces me to stay in that middle path of like, "I'm not going to pretend I know everything, but I'm also going to try and really operate from that place of trust." But yeah, I do research and I look things up and whatever. But yeah, I just think that we do it all the time to women and to pregnant women. We undermine their choices, we undermine the woman that wants to go and have a caesarean, it's like, that's her choice, and that should be how it is. And I think the more we're having these conversations around how important it is to look at fear, to work through what is your capacity to handle fear? Whose fears are they? Who's narrative are you buying into?

 

Tahnee: (21:49)

I think these are really important sort of prenatal questions and a part of our journey as women. Because we do, we get so much stuff flung at us from all over the place. And I mean, you're on social media pretty actively. I mean, I can't imagine, you must get the best in the worst of humanity coming at you sometimes. How do you deal with that? As a family, do you guys just kind of have really strong boundaries around what you let in or do you try and choose to just engage with the positive stuff?

 

Jinti Fell: (22:20)

Firstly, you're pregnant, that is so exciting. I'm like, "We need to take a moment to just be with that." That's amazing. And I had full body goosebumps, just sitting, knowing that I will be a big sister and yeah. Wow, yeah. But to answer your question, I think something that came up for me when you were speaking was like, how much do we trust women? Do you trust women or not? Because a lot of that second guessing and like you said undermining, is really going against women. And I think that's such an important question to ask yourself whenever you do engage in care with anyone, do you trust, do they trust women? Do they trust me, really trust me? And the other thing that I thought of was like, isn't it so interesting, we're hiring, we're hiring midwives and we're hiring carers.

 

Jinti Fell: (23:40)

It's in a way they're working for us, with us, but it's so crazy to think that they can just not listen to us. And yeah, it really gets me actually. And then in terms of the social media and sharing and oh my gosh, it's truly been a journey. And I'm not, I honestly think everyone is just sensitive. And when people are like, "Don't let the hate get to you or ignore that. Don't give it attention." You're like, "That's not easy." And it's not a natural response as a human, I think to someone energetically really coming for you. So we shared on YouTube, because after we had our daughter, we started living on the road and travelling and just our whole lives changed. Having her really made me think, "How do we want to live? There has to be a better way than how we were living at the time."

 

Jinti Fell: (24:52)

And just like, she was watching everything we did. It didn't matter what we were saying or anything. How we lived is what she was learning from. And so our lives really changed with that realisation. And so we started living in quite an alternative way, I suppose, and that peaked a lot of people's curiosity and that alternated to us sort of sharing our lives more regularly. And it was really fun, we really enjoyed it. But first and foremost, we lived our lives and then we shared parts. And then over the years, I think I let people's opinions get to me more and more. I wasn't ... Well, there's quite a few different reasons why I think I did that. But it wasn't just the negative stuff. We had some horrible people saying horrible things, but it's also the compliments and the praise and the support.

 

Jinti Fell: (26:05)

I think it's all just got to the point where I was seeking outside validation and not following just what felt right to us. And so it sort of sucked some enjoyment out of it. And I was like, "Wait up. We started all this for a reason. And it was to not live in ways that didn't align or feel good." And even now in pregnancy I feel that I dilute a lot of my own beliefs and feelings about things sometimes just to protect my own space. And sometimes I'm okay with that. But other times I'm like, even doing this podcast when I was thinking, "Oh, how would I answer certain things?" I went to not wanting to offend other people, not wanting to. And I was like, "No, I want to speak to people who need to hear this message and who genuinely are interested." But it's funny, it definitely affects me still, and particularly in pregnancy.

 

Jinti Fell: (27:16)

I'm happy to have more space away from it, and just to know that I need to be there for my kids and for myself and within my relationship and our immediate family, when I nurtured that, that's what's really important. So yeah, I'm definitely up and down with being alive, as I know you are too, because you had a really big break. I missed you when you were offline.

 

Tahnee: (27:46)

I really relate to, I mean, I probably have always had one foot out, so I don't feel as affected probably by the other people as you do, but I guess I'm just really questioning what we're even doing participating in this thing. And I mean, but then, like you said, with missing people, there are people in there that I've connected to that I just would never have met in real life. And people that all over the world that I'm able to stay in touch with. And it made me appreciate how, being off it for quite a while made me appreciate it, I didn't need it, but it also, I don't make that effort to connect to people through other means. I don't call my friends in the U.S. and Switzerland, I just don't. The time differences are hard, I have a kid and it's not easy for me to get on a call at seven in the morning. That's when I'm making her breakfast.

 

Tahnee: (28:44)

So I found that practical kind of ability to connect and stay in touch is really valuable for me. That's the biggest reason I'm probably back on. But yeah, I struggle as well, and I think a lot. I mean, I remember when you posted your birth video, and did YouTube take it down?

 

Jinti Fell: (29:02)

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

 

Tahnee: (29:02)

I remember there was a little wacky stuff going on then. And I remember really feeling for you because I watched that and it was one of those beautiful, sovereign things I've ever seen. And I thought the way people responded, I don't know, just made me sad. I was like, "Wow, I can't believe that's how people are taking this in this really negative way."

 

Tahnee: (29:22)

But I think it's also, like you said about offending people, I feel that all the time. People write to you and they're triggered by something you say or something you do. And it's difficult. It's difficult to stay authentic and speak from where you are. I learn all the time, but today, this is what I know. And I might be completely wrong and two weeks later I'm like, "Oh God, that was a mistake." But it's part of I think living is to continuously grow and I don't want to censor myself. Because I learned, I learned through making mistakes and people have written me things or written us emails here and they've been like, "Hey, you haven't considered this, or you haven't looked at it from this." It's like, "Amazing. thank you."

 

Jinti Fell: (30:03)

Thank you, yeah.

 

Tahnee: (30:05)

Like you're helping me to learn, but it's all in the delivery. And I think what I see in social media a lot, it's just people are kind of insensitive, harsh, forgetting that there's a human behind any piece of content that you see online. And I guess that's kind of what I felt with you when you had your beautiful birth online, it just seems like there was a lot of positive stuff as well. I don't want to obviously undermine that, but yeah there seemed to be a lot of projection and a lot of just triggering and fear kind of coming at you. So I felt for you guys then, and I don't know if that was a big time for your family or you were sort of able to isolate from that?

 

Jinti Fell: (30:44)

I didn't feel that at all at that time, we were just ... I think because I'd just given birth and it was everything that I knew he needed to be. It was just exactly how I wanted it. And I was like, "I don't care actually what you think right now, because that was awesome." I was probably feeling quite strong then.

 

Tahnee: (31:21)

Would you do that again? Would you post your birth again, or do you think?

 

Jinti Fell: (31:28)

So, actually-

 

Tahnee: (31:32)

You don't have to if you don't want to.

 

Jinti Fell: (31:35)

No, there is no big reveal. Well, this pregnancy actually leading up to conception, just you going through different things in each pregnancy, it's just like a part of your life. There's always different seasons. And I was really drawn to Kim Anami's work actually. I think she's been on your podcast. And I took one of her salons and started really exploring my relationship with myself and with my partner. And it was, yeah. I was like, "Okay, I want to have a cervical orgasm because what's up with that?" And that journey really led me, well, we conceived. And that was very on purpose. Well, in ways. But this pregnancy for me has been all about finding pleasure and enjoyment. I had this really calm and peaceful birth. That was just what my son’s like, it's just him and what was needed. But I know that I could explore that more and go deeper and have a very intimate, pleasurable birth. And so I'm like, "I don't know if I can film that, because I don't think it necessarily works like that. I think it's going to take away from."

 

Tahnee: (33:14)

It's like being watched and trying to have an orgasm.

 

Jinti Fell: (33:22)

Yeah.

 

Tahnee: (33:24)

[inaudible 00:33:24] I guess. [inaudible 00:33:30].

 

Jinti Fell: (33:30)

Yeah. But I would like to have, I love when saying it, I've not really watched my son's birth. I've seen snippets where my daughter wants to watch it because she just loves watching birthing videos, but I'm like, "I feel it would be cool if they want to watch how they were born one day." And just having that there, it's nice to me like that. So I haven't decided, I feel like I can have a photographer or someone in the space. I really want it to be an intimate space. So yeah, we'll see. But sharing the video the last time, the whole time I've shared our lives online and stuff, the messages I've got from women who have watched that video who had never seen a calm birth, or it just opened their mind to a different way or something. I was like, "Whoa, that was important for me to share. I'm really glad I did." So yeah, we'll see. Maybe I'll just keep referring just if anyone else refers to the other like, "Look, there's a lot of that."

 

Tahnee: (34:52)

Yeah, I'm curious. So with Kim Anami, which salon did you do?

 

Jinti Fell: (34:55)

I took her Well-Fucked Woman salon. Have you done this all?

 

Tahnee: (35:00)

Yeah, I've done a couple of them.

 

Jinti Fell: (35:02)

Okay.

 

Tahnee: (35:04)

And Mase has done the men's one, which I can't remember what it's called.

 

Jinti Fell: (35:10)

Yeah, it starts next month. I think Chris is taking it next month.

 

Tahnee: (35:12)

Oh good.

 

Jinti Fell: (35:14)

Sexual Mastery for Men.

 

Tahnee: (35:18)

I find the, I think what you are talking about in terms of that exploration of pleasure and then, because to get really personal here, with my first pregnancy I was so horny, and the last, I don't know, month, I remember being ridiculously insatiable and it was quite confronting for Mason. I think he was like, "I need to [crosstalk 00:35:43]."

 

Jinti Fell: (35:43)

It was like, yeah, I love that.

 

Tahnee: (35:50)

I think he was a bit like, "Ah." I was like, "Hmm." I just remember being ridiculous, but I was kind of a bit afraid of that and a bit ashamed if I'm really honest. And I'm really interested to say if that repeats this time and also how I'm able to embody that more this time, because I just think it was my first pregnancy. I was new to it all, it was just not something that I expected, and it's not something you hear spoken to very often. Most people I know growing up and stuff like, "Oh, you don't want to have sex when you're pregnant." I'm like, "Oh my God, what are you talking about?" Be like-

 

Jinti Fell: (36:24)

Can't relate.

 

Tahnee: (36:29)

Can't relate. It's awkward, and you have a huge belly or whatever, but you work it out.

 

Jinti Fell: (36:32)

Yeah.

 

Tahnee: (36:34)

Yeah, and we made love that night, even during my labour and stuff too. And I remember people were sort of, a few people I have shared that with being very kind of surprised and yeah, anyway, it's just something I've reflected on a lot since having Aiya.

 

Jinti Fell: (36:46)

Yeah.

 

Tahnee: (36:47)

I've really want to allow that energy in this time and bring. If you have some thoughts about that, I'd love to hear?

 

Jinti Fell: (36:54)

That makes me so happy. I think it's so beautiful. And isn't it crazy to think that, how we made the baby, that's okay. But that energy can't be transferred to how we give birth and you've been talking about orgasmic birth or whatnot. I was laughing with my sister about it. I was like, "Gosh, the other birth I shared that was controversial enough to a lot of people." So I'm like, "I can't post an orgasmic birth." How absurd it is that we cannot share that something was actually pleasurable, but it would be completely okay to share something really painful.

 

Tahnee: (37:39)

Yeah, got it.

 

Jinti Fell: (37:40)

Yeah, my journey this time has really been about connecting with my cervix and my womb space and exploring that sexual energy. And for me so much shame as well, just as you mentioned, because yeah. And also there's a separation between growing a baby and also being a sexual woman, which is absurd as well really. But yeah, I've been exploring that a lot myself, and even if my libido is ... I don't have a really high libido, I'm still wanting to engage because it's something that I'm really trying to cultivate in this sexual life, that creative energy. And it feels like that's very important for my birth preparation this time. I don't want that space, that core where our child was conceived to be something that I'm unfamiliar with and expect to be able to have a pleasurable birth. So I'm not sure where I was going with that, but.

 

Tahnee: (39:03)

It makes a lot of sense I think. You're just mentioning keeping that sort of sexual energy present through the pregnancy. And I mean, whatever tradition you're looking at, the [inaudible 00:39:13] you know, that creative force, that's what drives labour. That's what drives birth, that's what drives any reproduction on the cellular level, any force of manifestation. I mean, it's quite potent to work with that energy, I think in pregnancy. And I mean, it's definitely, I don't think spoken enough about, even in my midwifery care they didn't mention sex once the whole time and I thought that was interesting and not something I guess I brought up because I didn't feel the need to discuss it with them, but I was, it's like, it's curious.

 

Tahnee: (39:47)

And I think Sarah Buckley talks about it in her work on hormones, but the same hormones present in a sexual experience, like a pleasant sexual experience, are the same hormones that drive birth. So if you're able to kind of remember that and remember those conditions to have a pleasant sexual experience, which is usually low light and intimacy and sort of your own space and those kinds of things, they're the same things that are going to be conducive to a healthy birth. There's a lot of correlation there for me. And again, you go into a hospital, it's bright lights, air conditioning, not a great place to get it on, so it's not a great place to have a baby.

 

Jinti Fell: (40:29)

Yeah. It's not just like an opening space, another place around for you.

 

Tahnee: (40:37)

I mean, in terms of I think your, if you're doing your own prenatal care and these things, and I know, are you guys still plant-based, is that still a part of your life?

 

Jinti Fell: (40:49)

No, I was like, I think we're going to talk about this.

 

Tahnee: (40:52)

Oh we don't have to. But I'm always curious about prenatal nutrition and stuff. So I'm interested to hear.

 

Jinti Fell: (41:00)

Of course, yeah. No, we aren't. And we were for, well, I was sort of raised mostly vegetarian and then I became more strictly vegetarian when I was my teen years and stuff y'all would go and find McDonald's or whatever. But within our home my mom has been vegetarian my whole life and we had mostly vegetarian meals. And then when I was, I think 18, I became a strict vegetarian. And then up and before my pregnancy with my first daughter, I cut out fully plant-based. And then it was, gosh, it must have been about four and a half years of that. I am linked to her birth as well, because in my pregnancy that was one of the things that was coming up for me was these cravings that I was having for eggs. And I remember my dad was eating scrambled eggs and I was watching him and I was annoyed at him.

 

Jinti Fell: (42:12)

I was, I wanted it so bad, but I was just like, and just I denied that in myself because I was more latched onto the idea of right and wrong and a labelled then listening to myself within my diet, it was more black and white, like right and wrong. And I didn't have this idea that you couldn't be healthy to eat animal products or anything. I saw plenty of people eating animal products that were extremely healthy, but it was more just morally I think, growing up vegetarian and just, I had this real blockage and I still at times do with eating animals or eating animal products, but yeah-

 

Tahnee: (43:06)

I was amazed a lot of the time too.

 

Jinti Fell: (43:09)

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and I know that you were vegetarian, I've listened to you speak about [crosstalk 00:43:14]. I was, yeah, so I'm sure you can relate a lot. But yeah, it got to the point where I was like, I knew when my son was born that I would not raise him vegan. And I said it to Chris and he was really shocked by that. I'm someone that is just more or open to change and growing and Chris is too, but when he's comfortable, he's happy being comfortable for a while. So yeah, I just, it was really humbling. And I realised how much of my identity that I had. How much I identified as who I am or who I was then with veganism in a lot of ways. And so I didn't act on anything for way too long really, because I just kept thinking, I would get into my head thinking it was just wrong and I couldn't and yeah, over the time, I think I woke up one morning and I just said to Chris, "I'm going to eat a steak. It's just this insatiable desire within me."

 

Jinti Fell: (44:48)

And I was looking around me also at the time, this was me considering this for probably close to a year and looking around me at the people in my life, which were a lot of the people in my life who were also eating vegan diets or plant-based diets and having a lot of questions coming up about their health, I suppose. And just looking around me, I really prefer to, I'm really drawn to people who just radiate health. They're not talking so much about it and like, "Do this, do that. Don't do that." But I'm just like, "Oh, what are you doing? You are really healthy, I can tell." And I wasn't seeing that within the plant-based community. I just, something had shifted in me. And I started opening to the other side, I suppose, and seeing things weren't so black and white.

 

Jinti Fell: (45:49)

So I incorporated some, I had a steak and Chris knew, I knew I had it. And I just was like, "Whoa, whoa." And even now I go back and forth because in my pregnancy, sorry, early pregnancy this time around, I'm 31 weeks now, so, I had really bad morning sickness at the start and it felt like, "Okay, it shouldn't have to be like this, there's got to be something, this is a message." And I was not having any animal products again, just because I seem to just drift back there, and yeah. And I was like, "Okay, I need to make some changes." And I did. Those are quite a few different things that I did that I started incorporating some animal products and broths and things back in, and within days just started feeling better.

 

Jinti Fell: (47:11)

So my focus now is really about just feeling nourished. And I really, I can struggle with this so much though. I don't know if I'll ever be someone that can just eat meat and not be like, I don't know, it's a real struggle for me, but at the same time it's been so humbling. And I see now that things aren't black and white. And that I have no idea what is best for someone else, but I need to really honour my own feelings. And I will mention as well, because I did speak about Chris earlier that it's a lot easier to see things going on in other people that you're spending so much time with. And I was looking at him being like, "No, no, this isn't," he's not thriving. And I could just see it in him in so many ways.

 

Jinti Fell: (48:23)

And yeah, looking back now, how I felt and all sorts of different things I was experiencing from, I felt like I couldn't speak, I was recording videos all the time and I couldn't find words. My brain was just through, I had absolutely no appetite in my postpartum. I just couldn't think of a single thing that I could eat. And there was so much going on that was leading, guiding me to open up my mind a little more. And it took me a lot of time, but I think we're in a much, much better place with it all now as a family.

 

Tahnee: (49:10)

I think it takes years to get comfortable. I mean, especially what you're saying about that morality and I don't think that ever goes away, but it's something I think, for me, it's really weird, I had an experience on [inaudible 00:49:28] one time where I was like, "Maybe this just like prana or like anything else," that really sounds ridiculous. But I was in the fridge where this bag of chicken that was sitting on a plate at this retreat centre, and the chicken was sparkling and alive. And I was looking at this strawberry that was over in a fruit bowl and the chicken, they were like the same thing. And I was like, "Oh, just the same thing," and I'd had this huge kind of shift. Well, yeah. I mean, it still took me a long time, but I still don't feel super comfortable. But yeah, it was a really good remembering for me that it's human morality that has created this programming in me.

 

Tahnee: (50:10)

And it's not a natural programme that, for me, I'm not saying for anybody else, for myself, that programme isn't relevant. And it took me kind of quite a while to sort of accept that. And yeah, I mean, were you raised, is it a spiritual reason your mum was vegetarian or more kind of just a health reason, or?

 

Jinti Fell: (50:31)

I would say both.

 

Tahnee: (50:32)

Yeah.

 

Jinti Fell: (50:34)

Yeah.

 

Tahnee: (50:34)

Because if it's tied into spirituality and into your kind of belief systems, it's a tricky one.

 

Jinti Fell: (50:42)

Yeah, I-

 

Tahnee: (50:45)

Do you have a spiritual container for the family or is it more your own kind of evolution? I noticed you sort of stretched, you don't really do yoga. Like [inaudible 00:50:54]. Didn't you guys do everything you do.

 

Jinti Fell: (51:00)

I am really drawn to, I love learning about different spiritual practises and religions. And I suppose more recently exploring my beliefs around God and learning about Jesus and reading parts of the Bible, which is more recent, but it's just. And in the past I studied yoga, I absolutely loved yoga. I feel like it was a massive catalyst for huge changes in my life. And then more recently I don't practise yoga in the sense of, I just sort of stretch in nature and do my own thing, but yeah, no, we don't really have any particular container that we identify as. But there's lots of different ways that we live that I like to incorporate, I suppose, practises and just more mindfulness with our family. But I always just go back to the place where I'm like, "Okay, I just don't know anything. No matter what I explore, I'm just like, I don't know anything."

 

Tahnee: (52:20)

I think that's the, I mean, every tradition points to that as being to be, so you never know, you think you know it all, I mean maybe at least someone's going to tell you you're wrong. That's been my experience. And I mean, how, in terms of with your kids, I know you guys are sort of homeschooling or again, predictions from the internet, but this is what I'm understanding of how you guys are choosing to live. Do you plan on being sort of stationary for a while or will you get back on the road when you can, or what's for you guys next? You don't know.

 

Jinti Fell: (52:58)

It's one of those things that, when I try to figure it out and make decisions, it just gets more and more blurry and I'm like, "Okay, let's just see what unfolds." I have a bit of a dream at the moment of getting a caravan and doing a lap of Australia for 12 months after my initial sort of a couple of months postpartum and just spending that 12 months together homeschooling as we go. But it'll just be five of us as a family for that first 12 months. I'm like, "That sounds awesome." And that's definitely something that we're considering doing, but our probably long-term goal and focus is on finding the right bit of land for our family and having roots. And just after travelling for so long, I think it was over four years really, just having roots and having community, it's such a beautiful thing. And our kids are just thriving from that at this stage of their lives. To do a trip around [inaudible 00:54:21] but it's not something I think I would do.

 

Jinti Fell: (54:22)

Travel indefinitely or anything any longer. We'd just be having our home base as well. But we're definitely just navigating homeschooling/unschooling. It is probably more homeschooling, because my daughter seems to really love some more structured stuff, so.

 

Tahnee: (54:47)

I loved school too, so.

 

Jinti Fell: (54:51)

Yeah, we'll see how it unfolds, yeah.

 

Tahnee: (54:54)

Yeah, I think that sounds really like, I mean, that was my experience with Aiya. Mason and I had all these, "We'll travel, we'll do this." And we moved into a cul-de-sac and she's like, "This is my place. I love the cul-de-sac. I love my neighbours." I'm just like, "Wow, this is so funny." And we're very fortunate, but yeah, that sort of, I get a little taste of that village, like she can go across the road for an hour and hang out with another mom and it's quite amazing to have that. Especially, we don't have a lot of family close by, so there's something really powerful for us in that. And I've actually really embraced. I'm like, "I kind of moved into this suburban thing." I never thought I'd be the one to say it, but I like it. And it helps that we're in a very rural area, so it's not proper suburbia, but yeah, there's something really lovely about it, I think, so.

 

Jinti Fell: (55:46)

Yes, I agree. And sometimes I think the whole full-time travel, just being on the road is honestly, that's me. I get itchy feet. I need to be exploring and I love going to new places and stuff, but it can be really glamorised often, but it can be really hard with kids and stuff. So you're just like, "Oh my gosh, just let me, give me a hot shower, a washing machine." And yeah, there's definitely.

 

Tahnee: (56:19)

Pros and cons.

 

Jinti Fell: (56:20)

Just yeah, pros and cons, yeah.

 

Tahnee: (56:23)

And I have a running joke about hashtag home life whenever we use the washing machine or something. Because we both lived in a kombi before and I mean, it was a lot of fun. Didn't have kids. It was easier, but yeah there's something about the comforts sometimes.

 

Jinti Fell: (56:35)

Yeah.

 

Tahnee: (56:35)

Like, "This is nice."

 

Jinti Fell: (56:39)

Yeah, this is totally. Yeah, I can agree with that.

 

Tahnee: (56:45)

And a sandy bed every night.

 

Jinti Fell: (56:47)

Yeah.

 

Tahnee: (56:48)

Any chance. Well, thank you so much, Jinti. I don't want to keep you too much longer, but I wondered if there was anywhere. Do you guys have any offerings or ways for people to connect to you so that they can ... You're just, I think you're really the embodiment of someone who really lives from their truth. And I know you said you sort of find yourself listening to other people, but I've always seen it in you that you have this really amazing ability to regulate. And I remember speaking to you about veganism a while ago and you're like, "Oh, I'm not sure how I'm feeling." But you navigated always such grace and you don't, there's no morality in your decision-making, it seems to just really arise from you. So I just really want to acknowledge that and honour that in you, because I think as a role model and as a woman, as a mother, that they're really beautiful things to embody. So, thank you. And I'd love if you want to let us know where we could connect with you or find you. I know you're on social media obviously, but anywhere else?

 

Jinti Fell: (57:45)

Well, thank you so much. That's so nice of you to say and share. I'm not really anywhere else. I have great plans and ideas. Like I was saying, we've just sort of moved away from what we were doing and we're in the space of like, "Well, what's next for us? And what do we want to create now?" So that's sort of still in that phase, but the only place people can really find me online right now is on Instagram. But we do have our YouTube videos. If anyone wanted to watch the birth of my son or anything. I think there's a version of it on our YouTube channel still, so. And I also share the stories of both my pregnancies and births over there as well. So if people are interested in that sort of stuff, yeah it's still up and available.

 

Tahnee: (58:41)

Yeah, awesome. And I'll link to all of those in the show notes and your Instagram and yeah, if you're listening and you want to connect with Jinti, get online and follow her and I'm sure you and Chris will come up with amazing offerings in the future,when you're done making babies. It's pretty time-consuming making lots of children. So happy for you guys there. I'm really, I'm sending you lots of love and best wishes for your next too.

 

Jinti Fell: (59:08)

Well thank you so much. And yes, sending love back to you and so excited for you about too already with your pregnancy journey.

 

Tahnee: (59:18)

I'm waiting for something to kick in, morning sickness, but it hasn't happened.

 

Jinti Fell: (59:18)

No, it's still coming, it's still coming.

 

Tahnee: (59:24)

I'll be calling you. What did you eat? I have a friend who's pregnant with twins right now. And she had a lot of morning sickness for about 17 weeks or something. And we were eating [inaudible 00:59:37] and just trying broth and I don't know.

 

Jinti Fell: (59:40)

Yeah.

 

Tahnee: (59:41)

Whatever works. But yeah. Just gotta get through it sometimes.

 

Jinti Fell: (59:44)

Yes.

 

Tahnee: (59:46)

All right. Well, lots of love, Jinti. Thank you so much again for your time and yeah, will speak to you soon.

 

Jinti Fell: (59:50)

Thank you. Bye.