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In this captivating discussion, Mason and Velan dive deep into leadership—moving past old-school hierarchies to a more custodial vibe, seeing an organization as a soul, not just a machine. Velan brings in seership—reading a culture through patient observation and awakened senses, like a mycelial network. They touch on elemental forces (earth, water, fire, air) as leadership teachers—especially water as a memory keeper. Leadership, they say, should be about self-education, letting things flow like living systems, and shedding those colonial mindsets that cut us off from our senses.
They also explore the alchemy of recycling energy—turning discomfort and conflict into gold by creating space for the unspoken. Mason even drops some SuperFeast wisdom about how unacknowledged secrets can disrupt harmony, and how tension can spark new paths—like dandelions breaking through concrete.
Velan wraps it up by calling for multidisciplinary education—moving from specialists to diverse thinkers—and finding common ground. He reminds Mason about enchantment, opening up new possibilities. His big advice for new leaders? Get real with your core secret—your profound why—the bedrock for any lasting impact.
Episode Highlights:
- [00:00:37] The Living Question of Leadership
- [00:01:21] Custodial Leadership vs. Hierarchical Models
- [00:03:45] Seership and Sensory Perception
- [00:05:37] Mycelial Intelligence and Elemental Mastery
- [00:09:28] Decolonizing Leadership and Reclaiming the Senses
- [00:17:00] Embodiment and the Practice of Discomfort
- [00:20:15] Alchemizing Conflict and Recycling Energy
- [00:22:00] The Power of Secrets and the Inner “Why”
- [00:27:30] Multidisciplinary Leadership and Cultural Enchantment
- [00:36:40] Embodiment as an Ecosystemic Practice
- [00:45:15] Leading Through Initiation and Death Cycles
- [00:51:04] Returning to the Sacred “Why” – Leadership as Prayer
If something in this conversation stirred something in you—don’t rush to make sense of it. Just sit with it. Let it move through your body, your breath, your week. That’s where real leadership begins—not in the doing, but in the listening.
If you feel called, share this episode with someone walking that same edge of becoming. And if you haven’t yet, subscribe or leave a few words in the reviews—it really helps this work find the ones who are ready to hear it.
A deep bow to Velan—for the generosity of presence, for weaving wisdom that feels less like information and more like initiation. Brother, thank you for reminding us that leadership is ceremony—a remembering of how to walk well with life.
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Check Out The Transcript Below:
Mason:
Boom. Hey, how you doing? Good to see you. You too. Yeah. I we we're running off the back of like half an hour of pretty high charge convo, which is pretty Yeah., Which is always lovely. I'm just hit that record button as soon as possible to capture it all., Yeah, Leadership as Seership: Embodiment, Ancestry, and the Alchemy of Culture I mean, for those,, you got the high level in intro from Velan.
Um, you've heard him on the podcast before., I'm gonna be talking about various types of leadership, uh, I've just gone to a talk the other day from a CEO, kind of like publicly listed person who's talking about transformation within the leadership space of like executives and that kind of level, and I think that's super valid., And quite often what rubs me the wrong way is that then there's this assumption that once you get a little bit of medicine in you, that you also own that space and you know., There's a space of,, folks, put myself in that camp yourself as well, who have grown into leadership, not through that hierarchical organization,, band, maybe, coming more from animism, embodying that. Then working perhaps within a few of these organizational structures, but understanding leadership from a space of like custodianship.
Actually being able to perceive the living reality of a culture or the soul of an organization or the individual you're talking to, rather than looking at it through a nuts and bolts machine of an organization. I think it was gonna be cool to chat about all of that. I'm excited. So, . We get to talk now about one of the funnest facts that we've been chatting about for a few years. You worked with, it, went into the roosters. I mean, you've had how many years in, you know, Costa Rica and walking many paths and paths with the medicine and so on and so forth, and forming this, body of work that you've got now. Where have you landed in the body of work? And, you know, especially now, you're, an, ex Chucky.
Velan:
There's so much that you just touched on and I think,, as I was driving here and the core of, you know, knowing you for, I don't know how long we've known each other now, probably 15 years, probably plus, and was thinking about the core essence of the business where it started and thinking about mushrooms and mycelium. That's really informed actually where I've returned back to, which is the reorientation out of,, a linear A, B, C, D,, and really looking at what is to educate, what is pedagogy? You know, like, let's look at this word first and foremost as a multidisciplinary education, multifaceted. So, yes. Um, the arts. Yes, the science, yes. What is philosophy, and what is really a culture? What is a living system?
There's so much first to go into that and, I think also what came to me as you're speaking, what is it, to see, I don't mean through the eyes, but I mean, what is it to read a field? What is it to go into an organization as an outsider?, Our capacity to turn on these kind of higher sensorial,, places inside of ourselves, give us the capacity to enter a space., And when I say enter a space, I don't mean frontally. I don't mean to be noisy, I mean to be on the outsides of the periphery and observing. I'll always say as someone who works with culture. I do not open my mouth for a very long time until I've observed the cadence of speech, until I've observed the information in between the relational, field that people are moving with. How do we begin to take this, you know, you mentioned medicine, you mentioned animism. What are the real foundations and principles we're talking about here?
For me, we're talking about living systems, like what is a mycelial network really? What is a Delta system? You know, when we look at the origin of power, which is earth, water, fire, air, welcome to the education of the medicine, not the cherry on top, not gonna sit in a ceremony, which is the cherry that takes a long time to fruit. I'm talking about, the whole body and the root system of this tree. And this is where I find it to be interesting. What is the education of sea ship? What is the education of cultural change? First, we have to look at who are the masters. Well, the masters of all of this are the four powers, earth, water, fire, air. So just for a moment, let's look at, the hydrologics, the science of what water is. This can be an entry point. What is water? First, we look at the science. Which is that it's a memory keeper. You know?
Now we know that the high tech AI computers are using water as a memory keeper. If we look at the science of ito, the Japanese scientists that looked at the restructuring of water, that it is informed and the structure has changed,, as we speak,, as, the information that's extended from our being. When we look at also the logics of water, we look at, . A life giver. Everything that it touches,, it gives life to, and that's where I'd like to start. How do we enter an organization if we're working with and give life? Give education. Not that we tell them A, B, C, D, because sometimes it's important to go A, F, Z and back to C so that they, you give the human being, which is a highly intelligent species, the capacity to,, adapt, use its tensity to flex and pulse and undulate.
And self-educate instead of only directing from an A, B, C coming out of the linear and into a far more living network of what it is to be in leadership.
Mason:
So that, I think that seniorship that you're talking about, it's like those. Just painted the complete picture of what I wasn't able to paint. And I was like, in, sitting in ambiguity in terms of what I wanted to ask, but exactly what you just described and what I've been talking about. When I see, you know, bless them and I, this is a judgment. I like the, the role is super valuable, but a born again executive who has a few moments within animism and seeing it, and therefore. Sitting on the edge of what I would talk about, and I've done this many times, so it's not like a full judgment of being like, I'm gonna, despite the fact that I'm a two minute noodle that only knows the periphery, I'm going to assume because it's not fully defined what a sea ship is, and especially the role of sea ship is.
So I'm not gonna go, look, we've set the culture, we've set the values, and if you can't adhere to them, you're out. That's an A, B, C, linear working off the map of what it is to be a conscious entrepreneur or a conscious executive. But I'm seeing like more and more the emergence of a. Uh, almost, like there's an, objective hardware,, soft skill of someone who, you know, if you are living in,, e-commerce land, I'm not gonna assume because I know how to build a little bit of e-com that I'm an expert in. And likewise, in being able to perceive the root crop of where a culture emerges from, and being able to then go, I'm gonna be able to follow the river of how it plays out, not just focus on the individual and then. Reprimanding them. If they don't do what's good, it's like that's just gonna play out.
That seership, I think is such a hard skill that with AI emerging is gonna become something that people start desperately clawing for because it, these are living systems. So I just want to hear as, you emerge, that I just really want to like, I think that's really underappreciated. It's probably what I'm really wanting to like. Uh, define in terms of especially organizations that are wanting to do soul retrieval or have not just put their founder or their coach and be like, you are the heart and soul of this business. But actually understand how to steward and bring more of a stewardship to the way that they run it.
Velan:
Hmm. I think it's such beautiful inquiry and thanks for the depth and the breadth of these questions. 'cause it's, it's also so prevalent in this time and I think the first part. In my training, I always return back to the origin. So let's look at what happened in our culture. What are we as a culture first and foremost? Do we have the capacity to critique ourself first? And then do we have the capacity to critique the culture that we are? But first and foremost, we have to understand that we came from a religious colonial lens, whether we wanna believe that or not. And often what comes through with,, colonial lenses is the misrepresentation of what living, culture and living entities are. First and foremost. What happened in the colonial onset, which is what we're still living and, and at the cutting edge of transforming right now, is that through colonization, the.
Cutting of our relationship to the earth, the cutting of the sensorial knowledge, which is when we understand what is knowledge we can under, we can begin to understand that through expanding the incredible,, sensory network that we are, that we come in contact with knowledge through sensing. So this is the origin of sea ship that got cut through the colonial lens. Is that first and foremost, we understand as we come back to listening to the water that we are, you know, let's go back to the science. We are 70% water. I would say more, but we are a body of water. So first of all, let's, before we even look at culture, let's look what a body of water is. The highly intelligent way that water moves, that it carries memory, past, present, future, that why is it when we dance that all of a sudden we, you know, anyone that dances.
All of a sudden knows that when we get in contact with that movement, or if you're a martial artist or a soccer player, or a football player, incredible things happen in your psyche. Past, present, future opens because the body of water activates it comes online. So first of all, I'd like to change that, shift, that perspective of as we enter into culture, we have to understand that as we come back online with our senses. See a ship becomes an availability. And when I mean see a ship, this is a, is not something that you get from a weekend workshop. This is a long. Body of work, of refining our capacity to sense through our skin, refining our capacity to read someone's cadence and rhythmical and ways of moving what they hold in their body. You know what a CEO holds in his body when he is up the front sharing.
But what he doesn't realize is his body language is sharing something totally different. And then how do we begin to change the culture? And often we can't do it Frontally. Because we see something. But if we just blurred out what we're seeing, people get offended people. And, I mean, let's not even go into how fast that's happening in these times. How strong the separation story. And when I talk about separation story, let's come back to what makes us common as a doorway to. Healthy organizations and culture. First of all, what is what makes us common and the greatest teacher of this, again, the water. The water is common to every human being on the planet. The water gives life to plant, animal human. The water vi revitalizes the health wherever it goes.
So I guess I return back to this understanding to go there is incredible pedagogy and educational forms when we return back to the elemental forces, which I know. Super feces based on a lot of these core founding,, energetics. And I see that as the cutting edge of the new pathways. How do we return back to these original powers and look at the earth for the systems that we wish and the new pathways we we wish to implement?
Mason:
When you're working with,, whether it's the footy players or the coaches or executives, I know you work with a lot of, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of lads I know that came up for the movement course with you and,, you and Ryan Barlo, like, and,, regardless, there's so much of your work is around,, embodiment, working with those emotions, with the evolution that occurs from within. Then you tie that work in, the depth of that work in with what's going on with acknowledging the colonial nature of the roots, what came before colonization, what, those religious systems that were used to maintain order while, colonies were set up and then., The very natural desire we have to reintegrate. But then as you reintegrate and we try and integrate with the earth, the feelings of guilt, the feelings of this is incomprehensible. And then likewise feelings of like.
Well, you know, I can't even, you know, well screw that, you know, you don't like it. Leave, you know, we've cut that out of our world now. We're,, we're a Christian, you know, nonetheless,, you can watch organizations now doing like a little welcome to country and,, sometimes it can be a good start of a seed. Sometimes it's tokenistic, but there is a genuine reintegration process. Is that, do you find that to be. Like that's, I find that so gooey. I find that to be like, it's done often, really in a disrespectful manner. Sometimes it's done too slow and it seems disrespectful that you're not acknowledging at all and integrating it. Do you find that that's bubbling up? It's working with the emotions of the individuals and the organization itself as it integrates back with, these elements, these natural elements, and working with the fear and the guilt and the denial.
That's kind of like a portal for this transformation.
Velan:
Yeah, I think it's really important to name that I'm a white male right now., I'm a white male that is trained by an indigenous leader, and it's really important that conversation right now because, for me personally. This is,, uh, hot territory with all of this, and I, I do wanna acknowledge the importance of the subtlety and, actually, the walk of this that yes, we have, there's a lot of guilt, there's a lot of shame, there's a lot of many things in the field, and part of it is to be in the relationship to it, to be in the walk with it, that it's okay if you get it wrong. The fact that, there's a first seed of, you know, welcome to country or acknowledgement of country coming in and, this is a beautiful first step. And yes, a lot of the time it is tokenistic and there isn't a deep connection and it's okay to get it wrong.
And it's okay for us to be in a process of learning and ed, this is what education is to get something wrong, but then have the dignity and refinement to go. Yeah, actually there's a refinement there for me., There's a feeling that it didn't sit right in my body. Okay? So I'm gonna have another crack next time, or I'm gonna have a yarn with someone, who lives in, in, in an indigenous body and ask a question or, to be curious and open enough to start to have, the dialogues and the, conversations because. Great conversations. Create great pathways. You know,, another really important piece that I want to bring through here is, for every human being on the planet, what really is our inheritance? You know, whatever color you are, whatever nationality you are. We all come from the earth. We all come from the water, the air, the fire,, the earth, and that is our inheritance.
That whatever point on the earth that we are, that it is our responsibility to start to form relationship with. This is really important moment to go. This principle of forming relationship with. Because I can, pray for what's going on across the world, but, and I can send my energy there. But what's really important is what is my relationship with my neighbor? What is my relationship to the kookaburra that comes and laughs on the tree? What is my relationship to the closest water source in my life? What is my relationship to my wife and my kids, you know, relationship with, is how we develop. . New pathways and new possibilities. And I think before we get too grand and you know, of course, you know, I also wanna weave back in what you said about the embodiment and working with, you know, embodiment is crucial.
Like every day I get up and move my body every day I need to go and dance or use my fingers to create., Because there's a lot of neuroses in the field for people based on the incredible overload of information that we're being exposed to. So what are our pathways to create, to recycle energy? One of the core foundations of the work that I was doing with the roosters is what do you know about recycling energy? When you are holding, when you are coming off, you know, playing in front of 50,000 people, what do you do with that as a 19-year-old? And some of them don't know how to manage the energy expenditure that comes from being exposed to those
Mason:
fields. Can I ask a specific then? Yes. Because I remember talking to you after that game they had in the finals probably two years ago with Souths where there was like eight sin bins or something like that. Is there, can you talk specifically about how you worked through that as a case study to, with so much, and they lost, I think, in that? Yes. And so like, how did that. Occur., How did you coach them or train them to let go or recycle that energy? So, I mean,
Velan:
this expands way out of just one event and into education. Like you said, it's not just about going to a ceremony and then all of a sudden you have these tools and thing. This is, a foundational pedagogy, which is science, philosophy, art and aesthetics, ritual and educating around the subtleties of,, energy. What happens when someone's angry or feels like they didn't get to complete something? I know in that game,, one of the players,, got shoulder charge and fractured his face and there was a huge response in the club. Like people were angry, the coaches were angry. Players were angry. And actually part of that work was creating platforms where the. The challenging conversations could happen. You know, what is our relationship when there's anger in the room?
Often with anger, we we're an avoidant culture on a, you know, as a generalized statement, but what is it when we actually create space for taboo topics and things that usually get swept under the rug? To have a voice, to have a space. I wanna speak actually to yesterday., I was in a, meeting in an organization and it was a, breaking down. It was one of the partnerships in a, in an organization was leaving, and what they did, they had a, they didn't just sweep it under the rug and,, that partner say, I'm just leaving and see you later. What happened was, we created a platform for. A place for sharing. So all of a sudden everyone that had something moving could offer it into the space.
And again, not from a place of taking it personally or having an attack., And there were people there,, board members that were regulating whether it was a personal attack or not, but both of those partners showed up to a meeting to essentially uncouple the business. Of course everyone's mother and father's wounds got activated and there was a lot of energy that was moving. But the overall energetic was people were so grateful to be heard in the feelings that they had when challenging situations and investments and things that had been moved into, had a space for recycling. 'cause what really is recycling is having a space for the elephant in the room. Having a space for the unspoken to be spoken and released out of the shadows of our psyche.
Mason:
Yeah, I mean, that's the hardest virtue,,, it was the hardest virtue for me to acknowledge at SuperFeast in terms of virtue on that shen layer. And I had to go back and do an excavation of when did I. The spirit of SuperFeast flowing in its own engagement in the world and the market. And when I, and when did I sense it being blocked and I was at a time of like rigidity and, you know, feeling maybe certain, like a bit of a hostility towards,, the market or particular people that tried to hang on to, the organization as it was, where it was going. And it was very. Stagnant. and then when I did my excavation back into the virtues after I did my seating of the source essence of where did superfic come from in birth, moments of intention that I didn't control, that spontaneously arose. And the virtue of alchemy was one of them., Especially tied to, the pericardium fire organ system.
And I've watched when I wasn't flabby, when something crappy happened, but I also wasn't excessive, it was, it's recycling. We turned crap and we absorbed the crap. Even though how uncomfortable or how hostile I felt towards it, or,, how victimized I felt or, and if I didn't even feel it. The organization, you know, sometimes the team feel it, absorb it. You can't do anything on the outside with it. You're going to have to trans mutate it and alchemize it and turn it into gold. It's definitely been the most difficult. It's easy in the beginning when it's grassroots 'cause you can just go, I can slip on that., But when it's your baby,, or when it for a team, when it's their, purposeful organization that's copying it, they, and they love and it's like that. But you brought it back to embodiment, which I appreciate. It's where I sensed us going is.
If there needs to be a sense of embodiment, it doesn't matter how good the systems are in place that say, this is how we alchemize and this is how we turn a crappy situation into gold. Then, the team, the humans and the souls need to have a certain embodiment. And then this is, I, I assume why you've got such a focus on practice and alchemy and movement, because there is a barometer there within the body that allows you to then engage with your senses, move through fears or,, injustices, that you feel and get back to doing. You know,, what's better for everybody. So. how have you noticed that, like you reestablishing and sensing the culture, but then how important is it to see everyone is embodied and therefore able to not be a stoppage in themselves and be able to engage within their own senses and process on their own?
Velan:
That's a good question. That's a deep question. It's a multilayered question, and I think the first thing to, to name the obvious is that we live in a body,, and there are multilayers of refinement that we can only cultivate with,, a practice of living in the body. . For me personally, there's no transformation possible without some form of embodiment and recycling because of the,, culture that is so uncomfortable with discomfort, and what is it really to begin to. Hold these more challenging conversations is that we have to find the possibility of,, being okay with discomfort and that requires a refined sensitivity with how we process that through our lived experience. There's a refinement that opens through our practice or through a dance or through martial arts or through being in the body when there's awareness with that.
Where we can,, modulate and expand our capacity to sit in discomfort. And I think in these times with the huge separation story that cuts us from what actually makes us common, that we have to be able to not flinch. We have to be able to not react even within that field of seeing when something's unfair, when we see that someone's actually projecting on us, and I think let's speak for a moment about the reality of what it means to be in leadership. The reality is that's gonna be people that are jealous. There's gonna be people that despise. There's gonna be people that wanna steal from you. There's gonna be people that wanna take from you. There's gonna be people that are doing things behind your back. This is human nature.
So actually the X factor in the leadership is how to not flinch under challenge, how to recycle through your own breath without flinching, even when you see the jealousy or the projection coming to you. And how do you actually reorganize energy by learning to land in your own still point and not react when everyone's expecting you to. How do you begin to, and this is the real art of, you know, the elements, or see a ship, is how do we, through our own refinement of our own body, begin to see where people are triggered, where people are jealous, where people are projecting and highly intelligently not flinch and begin to reorganize and refine through beautiful stories that we share. Through,, not giving it back frontally because this is the culture. Someone attacks you and you defend or you attack back.
How do we reorganize the reaction inside of our own body so that we can have the possibility not to make someone wrong? Actually educate and expand the perception instead of reacting to the surface layer. And this, now we're starting to talk about, the origin and the principles of sea ship, which is a martial art, an energetic,, aikido in the way that we respond to reaction and the surface layer of culture. Because the surface layer of culture is reactive. If you don't have a embodiment practice, then most of the time there's gonna be a reactive field. And the high level of attunement to the culture and to what cultural change and transformation really is, is being able to not flinch in the intensities and projections and, . Uh, separation stories of this time.
Mason:
I mean, even just when something goes wrong in a project you've been working on,,, for a while and like that. I mean, I was just thinking about it this morning and I just had a reaction to something and I wasn't being projected upon, and it wasn't actually anything personal, but I've just noticed a reaction and I was like, oh man, I am. Really, one of those people that's done so much work, you know, maybe 10 years ago or even like five years ago, like, yeah, I've got that. And, my personal practice is maybe, you know, now moved over to the., To some, deeper comprehension, of original intent of the universe. And I've, I was like, I've really actually left behind my never ending,, responsibility to allow my nervous system to not actually just like arc up, and respond. I was like, oh, so, this seems like a.
A non morality point of view where it's like, no,,, I, you know, reacting is bad and I'm not gonna react. I'm gonna pacify myself. Versus being able to actually follow that process, with a practice of embodiment does make sense why? That's the, these are the worlds that you are. Merging at the moment and create, supporting folks to create a little mastery in their body and staying embodied, is that, like, I've watched you go a little bit through that,, like, you know, you work with the Shaolin and, you know, within Daoism and your yoga, you know, like, and getting off the mat. Is that still because, you'll work with an executive and a CEO or an elite athlete, but it's exactly the same with someone who's trying to find leadership.
You know, working in this area who might have a reaction to, the way that the economy is set up and not wanting, you know, and reacting too much and not able to engage with business whatsoever because they have such an aversion and such a, you know, I'll speak myself like as such a disgust sometimes, and so they won't let them engage to begin with., Is that where majority of your work sits or is it like, is it, just a part of it?
Velan:
Yeah. I mean, it's definitely not the majority. It's definitely a part, but it's, also a major principle. Mm-hmm. Something that I could never leave out, you know,, let's talk about leadership as also like, you know, being a mom mm-hmm. And, and leading your children and., In the moment, uh, in the evening leading the cooking of dinner, we're all leaders in different moments and we're all leaders in, 'cause what really is leadership is a call and response, what is our responsibility, our ability to respond., And you know, just on a personal level, this morning, . I was feeling angry, but of course I know when I look at anger, again, if we are looking at surface layer and underlayers, it's like always when I'm angry, I'm like, oh,, I'm vulnerable. So part of my own practice, which you know, I also did with CEOs and coaches, was,, often there's a lot that's being held in the body is .
A contraction. And what I have cultivated for my own life is that once or twice a week, I have another partner come that I move with because I need to push someone. Often I need to feel, especially as being a man, I need to feel the ability to push. And sometimes it's, good for me when someone pushes me back. So I have a, a laboratory, an embodied laboratory that we go into., Where I'm exploring the places where there's something in my life where I had to swallow it down. I didn't get to push someone. I swallowed it. And in that laboratory I get that space to push it out instead of,, the addiction. And this is rampant in our, you know, we're all addicts in a certain way. If we look, whatever it is, some,, alcohol, some social media, some porn, some smoking, some eating, whatever it is. We, all have addictions. Mm-hmm. But how do we actually recycle them?, What is the way to actually.
Acknowledge them, and be with them. And for me, the, easiest way to be with is to actually explore the places where I didn't get to complete a cycle of something. Someone said something to me. I actually swallowed my tongue. I didn't actually speak it back. In another moment, I might've liked it too. So actually, in that embodied, uh, laboratory, I get the opportunity to release and push out, in a way that supports me to recycle the energy. I'm gonna keep talking about that while the mycelium and the mushrooms such a prolific energy on the planet, because they're masters at recycling, they are, the golden key for us to understand that. We are also that we are also a living system.
We are also a mycelium, we are tentacular in our relationships and our interconnections., And that is what makes that revitalizes our possibility to be,, healthy in a time where there's so much, you know, and I talk about health in a very wide way, but what is health and what is to revitalize health? Again, and again, and again and again. And it has to be through the body, through good conversation, through something that supports what is held inside of us to be
Mason:
released.
Velan:
Mm-hmm.
Mason:
It's so cool. You talk about acknowledging those like crutches and it's different for, you know, people, leaders,, yeah. Gaming, drinking, drugs, whatever it is. But it's so funny when I. It's not just founders,, anyone who's like really engaged on their journey at some point. Like I've never been able to, like, I haven't really sent enough time into it, but, I've written a big, big note on that. When I, work with a couple of founders, I'm like, I know you gotta work with it. And use it as a barometer, but I haven't sat and thought about it enough in terms of like how to actually help people work with those, you know, acknowledge those crutches when they emerge, what's going on, how to, because it's such an obvious, you know, and, good sometimes. It's got too much control of you and you need to like. You know, people just need to go to AA or they need to like completely cut off.
It's like, yeah, of course, you know, it's impacting your life and your business or your work too much, but there's always something there. If you can take the pressure off it, there's always a little emergence of like, you can often track back you going back into when you're a teenager or a child or what your parents did. And quite often there's a comfort in that crutch of it. So I just, I think I acknowledge It's cool you talk about that. 'cause I imagine it's like. It's, even with people who I know who go to therapy, they won't bring that up. 'cause that's my little secret, you know? And or with their partners. That's my little secret. I don't talk about that, but just the taboo of working with that, acknowledging it, yeah. Having a little bit of meaning behind it.
Velan:
Yeah. I wanna, I wanna touch, 'cause you used the word secret, and I think. Secret is a word that's exceptionally important to unpack around this., Because a secret can, you know, break down a whole family and a secret,, that's embedded in the right way can change the world., So I think it's important to name what is a secret. A secret is not something that we don't tell. It's something that we tend to, and when we tend to a secret, it generates a lot of power., This is something that I work with a lot when I go into,, extreme places for cultural change because sometimes the only way to begin to work with the culture is first through my own secrets and intention that I implant into a place.
When I talk about this, when I'm actually going into a location where there's animosity,, often more recently in my life, I used to in my previous life, always go where people paid to come and be with me. And now people pay me to come into places where people sometimes don't want to be with me. So when there's animosity in the field of cultural change, how do we begin to work with the energy field? Without being frontal, and this is when, where I'm really talking about shamanic tech, shamanic education, the secrets that, the secret intention that we're actually going in there with. To begin to change, the culture, but not frontally because I think this is where a lot of people get go, go wrong, is that they get really inspired and activated and they want to go in and speak to the thing that's not being spoken to. But the moment they do all the reaction comes out and it makes it worse.
So what is the. Intelligent way to begin to look at culture and actually transform it from the core. And we have to understand what a secret is first. The secret is that the powerful why that lives inside of you, that you start to plant on a very subtle level in the beginning. And slowly through story, through your own lived embodiment, through the way that the conversations that you have and maybe the little small adjustments that you begin to implement into the organizational culture begins to transform it, but not in the, uh, colonial or white man or hierarchal, or a b, c way, in a way where we turn on the mycelial intelligence. Where the pathways towards the nutrition activate by which pathways are gonna open more, not what I think as a centralized white man,, not frontally, but intelligently listen and feel and use our capacity to.
Open to what pathways are gonna allow a transformation to happen. And I think this returns back to the pedagogy. The pedagogy, the living network way. How do I think like water? How do I think like a mycelium, and this is an inquiry that doesn't have an answer, but has to be walked.
Mason:
Do you,, see that correlation then?, And it's, a skill to sense that intention., I mean, in SuperFeast, it's an interesting one. Most of my team, I think that previous team when I was really talking about. Fourth pillar,, of the SuperFeast,, emergence story,, was one that's like,, everyone calls it like something fluffy, but it's like, for me, I call it to war. And,,, there's this, secret prayer, and it took me a long time for myself to even reckon what it was. And it was, but it emerged in. Like objectively, when I walked out of a university, I looked back at the university and I said, I'm gonna, you've, I'm gonna destroy you for what you are doing. And that, was part of the story.
And as I walked with that bubble, that birth, and as I saw, I was privy to go into the institution and I had the sense to see what I sense in terms of nature., Like me being en engaged in nature is an aspect of that organization that it would, is secretly crying out itself to evolve and would be, and if I was to gonna go in, you know, with that sword or intent of evolution, which comes with destruction. In the seed of the source essence of SuperFeast.
What, that pillar within the source essence talks about is like, as you go and reach out with that sword to go to war, you are going to create an exchange and it is going to expose, and this is a secret, this is the secret of what we're wanting, but it's very fearful to engage with an institution and not realize in the beginning, we're actually asking that institution to the same for us, and shine light on a part of us as an organization, a herbal organization. That needs to be destroyed and needs to evolve if we want to be engaged. And that when that wasn't acknowledged, I saw that playing out in,, as an example, when that wasn't acknowledged, that's when I saw my secrets become more destructive, rather when I was in. So with that correlation that you see when people don't.
Engage with that sense and that prayer, which is symbiotic in nature, do you see then the emergence of the destructive secrets come out?
Velan:
Well, it's so beautiful. What,, like the moment you started sharing about this, I was like feeling the rub and the friction or the war and, what I know about friction and provocation is that it, it creates. The greatest artists on earth have come from provocation. The most incredible art, the aesthetic, aesthetic time periods in humanity, in civilizations have come when the provocation is strong. And you know, again, this is another colonial reorganization. Like, can we see the conflict as an incredible opportunity for even better pathways to be generated? Because the mycelium, because the waterways are generative, they, it's not when, you know, again,, the concept of religion is that when someone is wrong, they have sinned. They need to repent. It's like, well, when someone's wrong from, the living system of whatever wrong means. Mm-hmm.
It is how do we educate them back into the community? How do we actually support the renovation of their perspective and bring them into the art and inspire them to be a part of the art that we wish to create in these times? Because what I see on the planet right now with the provocation of the separation story that is rampant across the planet, it is the artists of these times are being called. The misfits,, the queer,, whatever you wanna call it, the ones that are holding both poles, both dualities, that can make sense and create art based on the friction and the tension that explodes out new pathways. And this is what I've just explained, is nature, is the incredible weeds that birth through the concrete. ., These are the pathways of the time. What,, dandelion or what Reishi mushroom is gonna grow from the decomposing matter, which is the culture of this time.
Mason:
Yeah. Dandelion, I bring, I use dandelion and I use Turkey tail a lot. You just, they're everywhere. You know, you just like, you can have the most like concreted, little bit of like colonial grass in a park and the dandelion or go and what I often. I use that in the example of that transfer of to war. I mean, I just use it as an example when I'm training people in that in my organization, we go into the Bhagavad Gita and we go into that nature of like, you've got a role here. You know, get in with the momentum and have that higher intent. But I talk about like as you go in and become a dandelion within that concrete jungle of say the regulators or, you know, within the pharmaceutical world,, we're gonna have something pop up as well. And that, and you are gonna have to be able to like, not just look outward, but look inward, and often, the Turkey tail represents that.
The mushroom represents the inner and the plants represent the outer. For me, when I talk about that, you need to watch that there is gonna be a mushroom right there that you need to look at and take. And humanity is ignoring the fact that Turkey tail is the most, probably the most prevalent,, immunomodulating. Medicine that is coming up everywhere except Antarctica. Maybe Antarctica. I don't know every continent though. And it's just looking at humanity in the face going, take me, take me, take me. And so like when you mentioned Dandy, I talk about that a lot. Be the dandelion, let's be a little dandelion and pop up, and we're, just one dandelion within an institution, and then stop and see what emerges next. It's a cool, cool analogy. Mm-hmm. So that's film feeling pretty beautiful. What are you turned on by most at the moment? Good one. Good question.
Velan:
Yeah, I'm curious about multidisciplinary education,, the movement from specialization into diversity, you know, to sit with you now to have this conversation, to work with a rugby league coach, to work with someone who's in music and look at what is common. Again, I return back to that as a founding guiding light in this time to break this separation, to go what is common between us? What is,, a multi . Lensed perspective because when we start to expand our site out of being a specialist and into, you know, science, art philosophy, then the mycelial threads that bridge them become the pathways,, out of separation. Mm-hmm. Because we're looking broadly, because we're excited to have multiple pathways. It's giving us, the lens of the mycelium,, the lens of the delta waterway moving back to the ocean.
And I think that's really the cry of the earth is how do we use the lens, how do we think like water? How do we think like, the thing that is revitalizing us through time, that is inspiring us to create art that is,, nourishing our babies. That is for Forti fortifying community. For me, that is, the real inspiration of this time is how do I see through multiple perspectives and how do I get, you know,, now that I'm saying this, I remember a long time you using the word enchantment and I dunno, it's just coming back to me now that there's something that you a lot for a long time, you use that word. I, it inspired me, I remember probably 15 years ago when you used that, you know, how do I get enchanted with the incredible blessing that is my life because when I'm enchanted Path, new Pathways open. Mm-hmm.
New possibilities open because that is, uh, a founding principle for the aliveness of the conversations that need to happen for the new pathways, again, to be born.
Mason:
Yeah, I probably, it's a good reminder for me as well, that word enchantment. I did use it a lot and, um, I look at Hook as my barometer for my life a lot. The movie hook and you, you go, you know, at one point he starts off as Peter Pan. And then he gets lost in his corporate world of like corporate takeovers. And Wendy looks at him and he is like, Peter, you've become a pirate. And I'm like, and I've just, I was like, look. I was like, oh man, I just said that to my team recently. I was like, we're entering pirate mode. We are going out there and we are going to get into this market and we're gonna hammer. And then,, you find enchantment. You resist the enchantment and you go find yourself back in Neverland, and then you embody that enchantment and you go back into the real world with that. Embodied within you. I look at that a lot.
It's probably a good reminder for me actually that word bring that way. So thanks for that.
Velan:
Yeah. And I think, you know, it's important a pirate. Yeah., I think also this time when you're sharing about this, it's like. There's space for all these different archetypes. There's space for the trickster. Sometimes there's space for the pirate. Thank God for the pirates out there that dead enough to create a new pathway, you know? And of course there's the path for the enchantment and the magic, and there's parts for education. But breaking out of any one dimension of what leadership is or what it is to be in integrity, you know, like I, I don't necessarily believe that there's. A hundred percent integrity in, a human being. When I really look at integrity, that word I go, well, the only place that I know it is in nature is the water I, or the water I can look at and say, that's an integrous being, you know, that's a living network. That's a being of integrity.
So I think there's just this time is so much to break,, where have we got caught in a certain way? Where have we got caught in certain concepts and ideas? Because I know for myself that if I look five years ago, if I look 10 years ago, I'd laugh. I laugh at myself. I have to laugh at myself because, the quickness of the time, the education that's coming through, the information that's passing through is changing the perspective and the way that I'm living in these times. And I think. We have to have that tense ity and adaptability and malleability to keep laughing at ourselves. Mm-hmm., Laughing at ourselves, and having the courage to keep having the conversations that create new possibilities. Are you,
Mason:
when you're working with people at the moment, are you,, in a like, just flowing state, word of mouth kind of thing? Are you making yourself more accessible? How would people. Do you work with, when you see momentum, do you work or are you willing to go in small businesses, bigger businesses, individuals? How's that all coming to form?
Velan:
Yeah, it's forming by itself at the moment. Like I, I'm working with a lot of professional athletes, but yeah, I'm, in a moment where I'm, definitely open to new possibilities. So, yeah, I'm definitely working with mainly teams, professional sports teams and athletes. But, for me personally, if there's a space for. Cultural change, then that fa fascinates me and interests me.
Mason:
Mm-hmm. Ways to follow along on, on Insta and websites and newsletters and all that.
Velan:
Yeah, for sure. Like if you want to get in touch with us as one movement.net or, one movement. And one movement embodiment school on Instagram. Yeah.
Mason:
Heck yeah. Yeah, just finishing this off., Especially wanna focus on,, for those who might be like, you know, maybe whatever they might be like starting a little bit of coaching or they own a small business that's emerging, that has that bubbling intent or working within one of those smaller businesses that are just like bumping up. What advice would you have for them to really embody this form of leadership, especially when maybe they haven't. Got those like hard,, business,, hierarchical kind of like skills that sometimes it's needed to scale., How would you just support those types of leaders who are trying to make an impact in the world?
Velan:
Yeah. I think, to return back to your secret first, like, let's work inside out first, you know, know the secrets of why you wanna do what you wanna do. Know your secrets and don't tell. You know the person that you know, that person in your life where they've got a new idea every second week and they tell you and they end up just treading water and don't do anything. Be the person that holds the secret. Again, not secret, don't tell anyone, but tend well energetically to why you want to do what you do. As the core pillar of beginning to make a movement outside, you know, to start speaking on Instagram and start putting yourself out first. Know why you wanna do what you wanna do. That would be my first and most important part. Know why you wanna do it, and then the rest will reveal itself energetically. And of course, I'm not saying then the magic of., Visualization and stuff will land.
No, there's hard work., Like, you know, there's hard work. There's discipline, there's, organization, there's principles, there's all the things that build out from that. But for me personally, get that clear first so you don't have to do it again and again and again.
Mason:
Mm Oh man. That's, I think that's a level of gold that if everyone listening can really sit. That, in what that means and how to bottle that so it doesn't get lost or it doesn't just live with you. Especially if you're doing something that's gonna go out and like get a bunch of team involved. You know, there's that. You tend to that secret. . Yeah, I mean for people running a business,, listen to that and embody that, that role. If you think, I can't do it, you know, you'll have all these born again executives and these other people wanting to come into the business and you'll have little boy or little girl syndrome going, oh my God, they can, they can run a business. I can't run a business. But they can't tend to that secret. That's, it's a hard skill and if you've got it, yeah, I'd really like, I really appreciate the way you put it.
I haven't actually been able to sense it in that way and also kind of respect it in that manner as well, in terms of being able to, when to let it out and, you know, when, who to tell not to tell. So, yeah, I think there's like something there for everyone to sit with.
Velan:
Thanks, bro. Oh, it's always a pleasure. It is. I love our conversation. I feel like we could have had another three hours and yet. So beautiful to meet you in this space. Always the way that your mind moves and the questions you ask. Thank you so much. Oh,
Mason:
likewise, man., As I said, it's like it's a good chance to actually have a catch up when your life's so busy. ., And hey everyone,, please follow up,, send questions. I mean, you know, there's many things we can do., . If there's enough demand, we can do another podcast. If you've got questions, we can jump on a live and let everyone know and answer some questions and all that kind of stuff. Keep the momentum going.
Velan:
Oh, such a pleasure. Thank you so much, bro. Thanks,
Mason:
bro.
